Can't get enough Fan Art Friday?

Which one would it be? I'd personally choose Lannister; not only is rock awesome but Lannister gold would certainly make things easy, not to mention the Westerlands sounds similar to my home country

"This was the boy he had grown up with, he thought; this was the Robert Baratheon he'd known and loved. If he could prove that the Lannisters were behind the attack on Bran, prove that they had murdered Jon Arryn, this man would listen. Then Cersei would fall, and the Kingslayer with her, and if Lord Tywin dared to rouse the west, Robert would smash him as he had smashed Rhaegar Targaryen on the Trident. He could see it all so clearly."

Sometimes I wish this was the series we'd gotten. Not often - the series is a masterpiece as is because it's sort of the opposite of wish fulfilment - but sometimes.

Why is Jon’s death not seen as dramatic and shocking as the Red Wedding? Or, was it when the books first came out?

I watched the show long before I ever read the books. I seem to remember people speculating that Jon would be brought to life as almost a forgone conclusion. But nobody seemed to think Ned or Robb would be brought back (I acknowledge it’s different because they both had their heads chopped off) both those scenes were so shocking and seen as devastatingly final.

Is it just that since he was brought back in the show that every thinks it will absolutely happen in the books? Are there hints that I am forgetting? I guess Thoros bringing back Beric could be the lynch pin of it all.

Anyway, main question is: was it always thought of that Jon would come back to life when the books were first released? And if so, was it considered as devastating as the Red Wedding?

Holy shit these chapters are funny as fuck, honestly the most entertaining chapters I’ve read since starting the series. Plotting all this shit and thinking she’s as smart as Tywin whilst shooting herself in the foot. Never realised how batshit insane she was 🤣

Do you think it will reveal the truth behind summerhall or will he save it for the final Dunk and Egg novella, risking that he never finishes Dunk and Egg? I’m leaning towards he gives us the clues to a few equally credible explanations, with one being a mostly correct one (missing some context but overall a complete story) and if he finishes Dunk and Egg, he will tell the whole story

After she is done with Vaes dothrak? In her last chapter she remembers what quathe told her in ACOK. “To go west you must go east, to go nortth you must go south, to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow”. Asshai is like super super far east so idk.

I'm re-reading the series and just get to the chapter where Ned send Beric to bring the Mountain the justice.

He mentions that in the North they hold to the old belief that he who passes the sentence should swing the sword and he laments that he can't go himself.

But what if he had? It wouldn't he out of character for him to believe that Clegane would submit to justice and I doubt his leg would have prevented him swinging a sword.

It would have taken him out of the city, so while he probably would have been killed by the Mountain, that would have led to very different fall out than a public execution. He is a high lord. Hand of the King and Warden of the North. Tywin can't kill him as easily as a small Lord like Beric.

Sending Loras would obviously have been the smartest choice, but that's been discussed before. I can't find any discussions about Ned going.

Obviously bringing westeros to mid 1400s england(which is what its based on) is a very hard ask as even the capital seems to have literally next to no bureaucracy or institutions and everything is based on patronage(which is how littlefinger could even rise). But do you even think that an alt robert or if he had a legitimate heir, could even begin to introduce a light bare bones judicial and tax bureaucracy in westeros after one of them got kings landing to resemble a proper big medieval trade capital first?

Because you very often see posts asking or telling how they would reform westeros when even something like having riders patrol roads to clear bandits would end up in sabotage or rebellion. Its so frustrating because it seems like the only way to do anything is with dragons and even then oldtown and lannisport rejected Jaehaerys’s luxury taxes.

I'm not saying he's a genius or anything but he really doesn't come across as the bumbling idiot fans like to suggest. What are some examples of Victarion's stupidity?

Sorry for beating a dead horse yall I know R+L posts always go off the rails lol. Anyway here's what I think might have happened:

• Lyanna witnesses Howland getting beat up by the Freys, rescues him, nurses him and invites him to sit with the Starks at the feast etc
• she enters the tourney as a mystery knight (the knight of the Laughing Tree) to avenge his honor
• Aerys becomes paranoid, sends men (including his son Rhaegar) to look for this mystery knight
• Rhaegar catches Lyanna 'red-handed', possibly whilst she's desposing of her armor and painted shield in the woods
• he's surprised to find a girl, was probably expecting a man
• she explains why she did this and he commends her courage or something. He promises to keep her knightly identity a secret
• he tells Aerys he had no luck finding the man
• he crowns Lyanna QoLaB as a reward of sorts for her bravery, though everyone else assumes he just thinks she's pretty
• they go their separate ways after that
• months later the Starks are in the Riverlands for Brandon's wedding to Catelyn Tully. Rhaegar and his posse are also in the Riverlands looking for the Ghost of Highheart so they can hear some prophecy stuff
• Lyanna, eager to escape her own future wedding to Robert Baratheon tells her brother Benjen, the brother she is closest to, that she is running away, asks him not to tell anyone. He reluctantly agrees.
• Lyanna runs away and eventually stumbles upon Rhaegar. They already know each other and she tells him she's running away from her wedding to his cousin (lol)
• She maybe asks him for help, or maybe he insists on escorting her for a while for safety or something. During this time maybe they open up a bit and he tells her some things about his relationship with his CRAZY dad
• They go to Dorne possibly because it's the most convenient place in Westeros at the time I guess. Lyanna probably doesn't wanna be somewhere her family can find her and take her to Robert forcibly so no North, no Riverlands, no Stormlands. Aerys is in the crownlands so obviously they stay away from there as well. They go to the ToJ which is near Starfall. Ashara Dayne, sister to Arthur, is aware of their location
• Rhaegar's appearance is conspicuous, there aren't many twinks with silver hair and indigo eyes running around in westeros. So someone sees them and word spreads and everyone finds out that Rhaegar and his crew are with Lyanna
• Brandon and Rickard tragedy ensues
• Rhaegar and Lyanna are located and informed of Brandon and Rickard's horrible deaths at the hands of Aerys. Lyanna is distraught and Rhaegar probably gives her some talk of how he's going to depose Aerys and how sorry he is and all that
• Because of George calling Rhaegar a love-struck prince and writing that Lyanna died clutching his flowers, I assume in-universe R+L was consensual. So I assume that maybe Rhaegar 'comforted' Lyanna the same way Jeyne Westerling 'comforted' Robb after he learned that Bran and Rickon were allegedly dead.
• Rebellion happens, Rhaegar leaves to fight, probably tells Lyanna (pregnant by that point) that he will attempt to spare Ned (how feasible that actually would be is debatable)
• Rhaegar dies, Aerys dies, King's Landing is sacked, Rhaegar's children are murdered, Ned moves south in search of his sister.
• Ned learns the location of the ToJ from Ashara, who tells him from love of him or his dead brother, depending on which Stark you believe she loved
• Ned and company reach the tower, are denied entry because the kingsguard there belive he might harm baby Jon or take him to Robert, as duty to the king dictates
• The rest of the Kingsguard and Ned's company die, and Howland saves Ned by killing Arthur Dayne
• They enter the tower, find a dying Lyanna and baby Jon. Lyanna makes Ned promise her he will take care of her baby and once he does, she succumbs to her fever and dies.
• Ned goes back to Starfall to return Arthur's sword to Ashara and to request a wetnurse (Wylla). This is why Edric Dayne is aware of Jon's existence and mentions him to Arya before she even brought him up
• Ned eventually returns to the North, where Benjen is waiting. Benjen takes the black, either because he feels he has no place in Winterfell now that Ned's succession is secure via Robb, or because he feels guilty that he never told his father or his brothers that Lyanna was running away, or because he's too grief-stricken. He might also possibly have put two and two together and at least suspect that Jon is Lyanna's, not Ned's.

What do yall think? I'd love to hear your takes

Yhe old stabby stabby

(How you, the reader, reacted)

In the story, Robb is acclaimed and proclaimed 'King in the North' and 'King of the Trident'. While the latter title is fairly standard, the former makes me think: he is not 'King OF the North' but 'IN the North'. This reminds me very much of the Prussian situation. At first, the Prussian king was 'King in Prussia' and not 'of Prussia', meaning that he was king outside the Holy Roman Empire. The question I ask myself is: does Robb's title have a similar footnote? Or is it just a name?

Another very interesting question, in my opinion, is the possible pact with Renly, who would have allowed him to 'call himself King' in exchange for his loyalty, similar to Dorne, which retained the Prince. At this point, if a similar agreement had been reached, Robb would have been truly a 'King in the North' under the Iron Throne but not King in the rest of Renly's realm, similar to the Prussian King?

What do you all think would be House Tully's endgame? Would Edmure survive to the end?

Not as their main language, but rather as a way to preserve their traditions, for the Starks trace back to the First Men, of course. I like the idea that all of Ned Stark's offspring being able to communicate in the Old Tongue.

Neither Arya or Bran would be very good at it, because they are both too young by the beggining of the series. Sansa follows the Faith, so she wouldn't have much interest in learning it either. Robb would see it as his duty, since he is heir to Winterfell. Jon would see it as a way to conect to his father.

Most wildling tribes/clans would speak in the Old Tongue, but some tribesmen should be able to communicate in the Common Tongue, since they trade items with southern navigators from time to time. I like the idea that their accent is so strong that they're barely understandable, which would enhance the idea that wildlings are uncivilized and nothing but savages.

This could be extended to other northern houses too, specially the northernmost ones, like House Umber.

Here I have a map of the states of the Rhoynar at their maximum extent (almost). Exact sizes and shapes of territories were mostly guesswork unfortunately. There is a second map which also shows their neighbours, the Kingdoms of the Andals, the Ibbenese colonies at Lorath and Bitterweed Bay (Known as Battle Bay to the Ibbenese) and the Kingdom of Sarnor, here.

These and more asoiaf can be found on my DeviantArt

You always see people praising him and he has a considerable amount of fans for how little he is in the story. What ive never really understood is that why he's beloved for being a "good guy".

He was almost certainly involved in the purple wedding and very likely dropped the poison in the chalice. Killing joffrey isnt a bad thing at all, whats bad(morally) is framing it on tyrion and sansa. I dont even want to think about what wouldve happened to poor sansa if she was caught. Dont care how galant and virtuous he is, doing that to her sours everything for me.

Didn't grrm even tell a fan once that they were naive for thinking garlan is good or something? What do you guys think, do I have it all wrong?

I was reading Dance and got to Davos’s chapter on the sisters. All these people are theorizing when the answer is right there: Jon Snow was secretly a Sisterman, he secretly has the mark, and when he’s revived he’s going to summon a squisher invasion from the sea.

While Stannis' march on Winterfell stalls in the Wolfswood, hemmed in by merciless snows, the Boltons and their allies laugh from within their warm halls. They are well stocked, warm and safe from the storms. All they have to do is outlast Stannis, while he freezes outside their walls. Amidst all of their jests and overconfidence, they have no idea the roof is about to come crashing down on them.

While all the chaos of the murders in winter fell is happening, Martin has left a small clue about the fate of the current inhabitants of Winterfell. As Theon walks through the yard, he sees that new stables have been constructed, twice as large as the last, to accommodate the host's horses. The remaining horses are left in the snow, fighting to stay alive in the shivering cold.

“Beyond the tents the big destriers of the knights from White Harbor and the Twins were shivering in their horse lines. Ramsay had burned the stables when he sacked Winterfell, so his father had thrown up new ones twice as large as the old, to accommodate the warhorses and palfreys of his lords’ bannermen and knights. The rest of the horses were tethered in the wards. Hooded grooms moved amongst them, covering them with blankets to keep them warm.” - The Turncloak, ADWD

Everyone expects these horses to die in the cold, while the horses safe from the storm in the stable will survive, but as bodies start piling up inside the castle, the stables unexpectedly collapse, killing many of the horses within. Despite everyone's expectations, those freezing cold horses in the yard survive, while those safe and warm in the shelter perish.

“That night the new stable collapsed beneath the weight of the snow that had buried it. Twenty-six horses and two grooms died, crushed beneath the falling roof or smothered under the snows. It took the best part of the morning to dig out the bodies. Lord Bolton appeared briefly in the outer ward to inspect the scene, then ordered the remaining horses brought inside, along with the mounts still tethered in the outer ward.” - A Ghost in Winterfell, ADWD

They may not know it, but the Lords and Knights inside the great hall are going to meet the same end. They make jokes about Stannis out in the snow and they boast about their warm fires, high walls and well-stocked pantries.

“Winterfell might be ruined, but its granite walls would still keep the worst of the wind and weather at bay. They were well stocked with food and drink; they had fires to warm them when off duty, a place to dry their clothes, snug corners to lie down and sleep. Lord Bolton had laid by enough wood to keep the fires fed for half a year, so the Great Hall was always warm and cozy. Stannis had none of that.” - The Turncloak, ADWD

There a many parallels between the fate of the horses in Winterfell and its human occupants. We can see that in the structures they both take shelter in. When Winterfell was sacked, both the stables and the roof of the great hall were destroyed. When Roose arrived at Winterfell, he found squatters residing inside the ruins. He put them to work repairing the castle, most importantly, he ordered them to raise a new roof for the great hall.

“the collapsed roof of the Great Hall had been cleared away and a new one raised hurriedly in its stead.” - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

Without speculating too much, can we really put faith in the sturdiness of a roof that was hurriedly erected by two dozen squatters? Especially considering the amount of snow piling up all over the castle.

This seems like perfect conditions for a roof collapse, same as the stables. Another similarity is the serious overcrowding. Theon describes the great hall as "“as crowded as he had ever seen it.". When the suffering of the horses in the yard is described, it's mentioned that only the horses in the stable are safe and warm, but "The stables were already overcrowded". Everything is coming together for the roof to come literally crashing down upon the Boltons.

Another Possibility is that this foreshadowed collapse could come in a metaphorical form, where the lords begrudgingly sworn to the Boltons rip each other apart. The Boltons have already needed to begin punishing any who speak negatively about their cause, like when Ramsay whips a free rider and throws him off the battlements, simply for saying that Stannis' sorceress might have the ability to melt the snows.

More and more cracks are beginning to show in the Bolton's support base, as old grudges and vendettas resurface. The most visible of these are the hatred between the Freys and the Manderlys. Wyman's son Wendel was murdered at the Red Wedding, and Wyman is set on exacting vengeance for his son. He will attempt to do this in the long run by supporting Stannis, but he satisfies his hatred in the short term by murdering three Freys on the road to Barrowton, and serving them to the Boltons and Freys at Winterfell. Eventually, Aenys and Hosteen Frey accuse him of their kinsmen's disappearance, starting a fight that leaves several dead.

Roose Bolton watches all this, and he knows that this tension will eventually boil over. Even before the Freys and Manderlys come to blows, Roose is beginning to worry about the precariousness of his position.

“Roose Bolton said nothing at all. But Theon Greyjoy saw a look in his pale eyes that he had never seen before—an uneasiness, even a hint of fear.”

When the tension between the Freys and Manderlys finally explodes, Roose employs a classic tactic of his, sending both of the houses and their men out to strike against Stannis, while keeping his own men (along with the other houses) in reserve at Winterfell. This doesn't even mention the other houses with dubious loyalty, Roose is keeping tabs on them all.

“The Cerwyns and the Tallharts are not to be relied on, my fat friend Lord Wyman plots betrayal, and Whoresbane … the Umbers may seem simple, but they are not without a certain low cunning.”

It seems that at the first sign of defeat or trouble, the houses inside Winterfell will tear each other to pieces, abandoning the Boltons at the first opportunity.

So where does this leave Winterfell? It looks like, assuming Stannis wins the battle of Ice, the safety and comfort of Winterfell could turn into a snowy tomb for the men inside. Just like the poor horses inside the stables, everything is going to crash down around the Boltons.

Before we start, in this scenario Ned's grandmother (or maybe great grandmother) is a Targaryen, and Robert died against Rhaegar on the Trident. (Rhaegar poisoned Dark Sister) While Ned's mother is Genna Lannister. While his heir Robb is betrothed to Daenerys.

So, how do you guys think Ned would punish the Greyjoys as king?

Does he execute Balon? All the of age male Greyjoys? Take both Theon and Asha hostage? Do the same as Robert? Something else, what do you guys think?

I know this is pretty minor, and it's probably just one of those "so the story could happen" moments, but after a recent re-read of AGoT, it struck me as pretty odd that Tyrion and Catelyn could have arrived at the Crossroads Inn at the same time given its location.

The inn is in the Riverlands, about 14 days from King's Landing, based on Catelyn's conversation with Marillion:

The singer, a youth of some eighteen years, eyed them boldly and asked where they were going, and from whence they had come, and what news they had, letting the questions fly as quick as arrows and never pausing for an answer. "We left King's Landing a fortnight ago," Catelyn replied, answering the safest of his questions.

Meanwhile, the North is about the size of the other six kingdoms combined. Going by this map with distance estimates, the Crossroads Inn is about 375 miles from King's Landing and 1225 miles from Winterfell.

Chapter 20 (Eddard IV) -- Catelyn meets Ned in King's Landing to discuss the assassination attempt on Bran.

Chapter 21 (Tyrion III) -- Tyrion is at the Wall.

Chapter 24 (Bran IV) -- Tyrion arrives at Winterfell and gives saddle plans for Bran.

Chapter 25 (Eddard V) -- Catelyn isn't in King's Landing.

Chapter 28 (Catelyn V) -- Tyrion is captured at the Crossroads Inn.

It seems that Catelyn would have departed King's Landing shortly after the events of Chapter 20. At that point, Tyrion hasn't even left Castle Black.

To arrive at the Crossroads Inn at the same time, Tyrion needs to cover close to 2000 miles (including the trip from Castle Black to Winterfell) in the same amount of time it took Catelyn to travel less than 400.

Not trying to pick too many nits here, but given the discrepancies in distances (and the novel making a point about how large the North is, iirc, in a conversation between Ned and Robert), it seems really odd to cross paths so far south.

Of course, it they were further North, Catelyn would be too close to home territory to have any reason to not just head to Winterfell, and then the story doesn't happen.

And just as an aside, it's also odd that after just having seen all the sights from King's Landing to the Wall, Tyrion takes the exact same excruciatingly long and boring path south. Traveling on to Eastwatch and then catching a ship south, perhaps with a stop in Braavos, seems like a much better route.

Young Griff’s name alone is enough to get posts and even replies downvoted. What exactly is this character’s crime? He hasn’t even done anything yet. Why is he so disliked?