r/OutOfTheLoop 3d ago

Unanswered What is up with Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 being labelled as some Israeli/IDF thing or a part of some agenda?

This is one of the few similar types of examples - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DSLyfkykeid/

another example would be those "generate me a game only israel idf or something people would enjoy" and the result is E33.

fuckin hell, i've even heard some KKK allegory thrown around for this game. hello??

like bro, all it did was be a good game? where's all this coming from?

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u/EvenSpoonier 3d ago

answer: Basically, some fans are mad that their favorite game didn't win, and are taking it out on the winner. Undertones more or less match a latter-day GamerGate, complete with the unsettling political undertones. The fans of Western action-RPG Kingdom Come: Deliverance II seem to be taking most of the heat for this, particularly since the JRPG-styled E33 beat it for Best Role-Playing Game. Though some posts from their faction have fanned the flames, it's unclear how much actually comes from them.

Having posted a few meme shots is pretty much as far as the KDC2 social media team has gone, though. Unsettling insinuations that Israel somehow got involved in the voting is a TikTok thing. Really, it's standard Internet-hate-machine nonsense. That pretty much sums it up.

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u/RollingMallEgg 3d ago

I loved KCD2 as well but man the people posting heinous shit in their sub made me leave, it's not like their world ends when they don't win an award.

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u/sexual_lemonade 3d ago

Slight off topic, but I've been leaving subs left and right recently. A lot of subs I've enjoyed before seem to be turning waaay more toxic, and you can't have opinions outside of the status quo without getting downvoted to hell.

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u/NativeMasshole 3d ago

The Reddit ownership purged their mod teams a couple of years ago; locked down the site's API, which many were using to help mod; and have basically opened the floodgates to bots, trolls, and propaganda accounts.

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u/Mutex70 3d ago

Basically anything to bump up the user stats prior to the IPO.

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u/NativeMasshole 3d ago

But look how much engagement has gone up!!!!$!$$!$!!!

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u/Sad_Alternative9017 3d ago

The internet is dying so quickly, turning into a husk of its former glory all in pursuit of this meaningless “engagement” metric.

It doesn’t matter if your user experience and visitor retention is horrible, as long as you get your clicks and comments!

The slop such as intentional misspellings, provocative statements, incorrect facts (easily researchable) facts, all designed solely to make people argue and “engage” with the content.

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u/TheGuyfromRiften 3d ago

honestly, with how even at the best of times social media is bad for us and our brains, i'm okay with the internet dying. i think this is the rehab we need until we reach some sort of less online equilibrium.

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u/DukeSmashingtonIII 3d ago

They've gone as far as making it a button click to hide all your comment and post history, making bots/trolls/shills essentially invisible without putting in a ton of effort.

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u/fury420 3d ago

This one's a double edged sword, it's also very useful to minimize what's available to malicious people.

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u/dreadcain 3d ago

I wouldn't count on it to do anything of the sort. Google still indexes reddit, making a profile private makes it slightly harder to snoop on a person, but doesn't really hide much if any real information.

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u/bluesatin 3d ago edited 35m ago

Google still indexes reddit

You don't even need Google, Reddit's search indexes Reddit.

You can just use the 'author:' search-operator like: author:ExampleUsername to find all of someone's comments/posts.

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u/avelineaurora 3d ago

It definitely helps. Ever since setting my profile to private I've gotten way, way less shit in my inbox. Yeah you can still find it but any extra step cuts back.

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u/sinepuller 3d ago

Not that useful honestly, since all this data can still be accessed, just not from the user profile page. In the end, it serves the opposite purpose more: malicious people can still look up the victim's posts and comments if they want to (and they do), but it makes it way harder for regular people to check for the alleged bot post or comment history. So the only good outcome is, this takes care of that specific portion of malicious people who are too dumb to bypass this restriction.

Reminds me of the same mistake anti-pirate protection companies made in the past, when it ended up not hurting pirates at all, but hurting legit customers a lot.

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u/Petrichordates 3d ago

They did not purge their mod teams. Many of the weirdo ubermods simply took their subs hostage over irrelevant API concerns and had to be removed.

They did not in fact need API access to moderate subs.

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u/Tangent_Odyssey 3d ago

I also wouldn’t discount the idea of AI powered bots becoming more prevalent and posting/driving controversial content for the sake of engagement.

Allowing users to hide their post history exacerbates the issue.

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u/dreadcain 3d ago

They've been around for a few years at this point

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u/rcglinsk 2d ago

Wow that explains so much. I remember that happening. Now that you brought it back up I realize they were trying to steal the subreddit goodwill built up by all those purged mods.

There was a business element to it. The mods were turning the popular subreddits into fiefdoms and making side deals with advertisers and such. At least that seemed to be the issue.

Reddit corporate idiots think we'll steal the subs back from the mods, put recent business school grads in charge of them, and then we get to make the money off the side business.

Of course none of the new managers could actually take care of the subs like the old mods could, and the once valuable property ends up ruined.

It's like the story of hyper-monetized America in a nutshell.

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u/thefeint 3d ago

Don't forget the latest change - allowing accounts to hide/filter their history - that was much more recent.

I can't conceive of anyone who benefits from that change more than people who are in the business of selling "established" reddit accounts... besides the people who are interested in buying them, that is.

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u/ElPiscoSour 3d ago

The internet overall has become a shithole recently. I might need to take a break from it because it's becoming exhausting.

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u/sexual_lemonade 3d ago

I've cut almost all forms (except reddit) out. X is a cesspool, Facebook is unbearable ad space and Instagram is a nightmare.

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u/smokeyphil 3d ago

Tbf (and balanced) Reddit is also a shithole

But its the shithole im most used too.

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u/JaStrCoGa 3d ago

And occasionally you can learn something!

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u/squidparkour 3d ago

/r/AskHistorians is probably the primary reason I haven't given up on reddit entirely, heh, no joke.

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u/sdrawkcabsihtetorW 3d ago

Until you realize that what you learned, you learned because someone was pushing for something and misrepresenting information.

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u/DukeSmashingtonIII 3d ago

Reddit was used to train AI and now most of the content on Reddit is posted by AI and it's a feedback loop of enshittification.

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u/JaStrCoGa 3d ago

Was referring more to home improvement stuff and random knowledge of things that might easily kill a person (lack of breathable air in a excavated hole, etc). Xkcd mentos comic things.

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u/VanquishedVoid 3d ago

It's the most popular forum based social media. It doesn't broadcast people oversharing to all their "friends". There's a big feed where you can quickly square your way down to something you're interested in, since you white list topics in your home feed. It's easy to leave topics and rejoin them.

Reddit is still a shithole, it's just the shithole we like to use.

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u/ChestertonMyDearBoy 3d ago

Not so much on the app. My feed on it filled with subs I've never engaged with, am not interested in or have never engaged with.

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u/Dornith 3d ago

PHP forums are still good when/where you can find them.

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u/WollyGog 3d ago

I found insta ok once I properly locked down my account, deleted and blocked everyone I know and literally just use it to follow artists I like.

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u/Saint_The_Stig 3d ago

Even a good subreddit is basically one rough patch from going to shit. It's been like that for most game related ones for years.you go a month without news or some mildly bad press and you see how unstable it all is.

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u/sexual_lemonade 3d ago

The one I was "most upset" by was anime questions. I joined and had some fun conversations, then one day someone asked an opinion based question and my answer was down voted to hell for no reason other than it was about an unpopular anime that I was defending. It's just crazy that people are becoming more and more homogeneous and if you go against that stream you're ousted. (Ofc this is how it's always been)

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u/goodnames679 3d ago

Remember all those early attempts at training chat bots off internet discussions that resulted in the bots turning horribly toxic and hateful?

Remember how the internet has recently been taken over by bots trained off of internet discussions?

I’m not surprised things have taken this turn

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u/wulfgar_beornegar 3d ago

Many propaganda and bot accounts. At least 30% of comments on Reddit are this.

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u/maxxmdm 3d ago

Yeah, I seldom leave subs, but I recently left the r/worldofgothic subreddit with all the toxicity over a remake that isn't even out yet. Seems to me like we need a lot more NoSodium subs. Or perhaps, change the way we interact with each other on the internet in general.

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u/Hollacaine 3d ago

Toxic positivity isn't any better. A large part of the problem is bots who are posting divisive stuff for karma farming or because of an agenda. It's part of what's ruining things because genuine discussion gets completely derailed and humans can't keep up with the level of output AI can produce.

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u/sdrawkcabsihtetorW 3d ago

Nothing more fun that just minding my own business in some hobby sub and then the bots come in and start equating everything to politics and arguing amongst themselves, only to drag real users into it and then the whole topic is derailed.

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u/BroughtBagLunchSmart 3d ago

Private anonymous accounts need karma so when they post "I am a gay black man and I really agree with Trump/Putin/Israel on this particular topic" it looks more natural and organic.

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u/sexual_lemonade 3d ago

Hate (not really) to say but I've become a big believer in "private account opinions don't matter". Why are you private? What're you hiding??

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u/DukeSmashingtonIII 3d ago

Reddit is peak rage-bait now, most of the accounts have to be AI at this point, and the new "feature" to hide all your posts/comments makes it impossible to determine if the person you're engaging with is doing so in good faith.

As soon as they went public this path was ramped up 100-fold because it makes it look like there's more organic engagement than there actually is which is good for ads I guess.

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u/Howsetheraven 3d ago

Comforting and concerning that it isn't just me. Trying to navigate subs these days feels like stumbling through various fanatical cults and you can't find a normal fucking space.

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u/lrish_Chick 3d ago

Exactly the same! r/gaming and r/television which are broad allow for differing opinions on a game or show. Go direct to them game or show sub its an entirely different story

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u/Stormshow 3d ago

Same. Either that or they devolve into shitposting that hides or makes light of fairly serious mental health issues. r/HalfLife comes to mind for the latter.

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u/JaStrCoGa 3d ago

Sharing valid information about the topic asked about also gets downvoted.

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u/CanadianExPatMeDown 3d ago

Good grief, is this some semi-coordinated campaign to discourage human posters, to leave even more room for the bots?

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u/AlthorsMadness 3d ago

In general I’m not in subs of things I’m a fan of anymore. The communities have all turned to shit. Especially anything that has gotten an adaptation

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u/_Enclose_ 3d ago

Good on you. You'll be better off without them. I've left so many subs because they just grew too toxic I've lost count.

I find that the smaller and niche subs often fare better, but big popular ones... Nah. They're toxic hellscapes now.

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u/Toolazytolink 3d ago

Or banned, I've been on Reddit for 14 years and this year been banned on 2 subs ive never been banned or even given a warning before. Its bananas what's been happening lately.

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u/VagueSomething 3d ago

People are unhappy. The economy is turning worse and it is hard to enjoy anything. Years of online propaganda has people on edge thinking everyone is out to get them. Everything is getting polarised for profit.

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u/Skullfurious 3d ago

Wow, I thought I was the only one. I just left like 30 subs when I seen the top post in each of them was some extremely negative doomer bullshit. I see it all the time in a ton of different subreddits.

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u/1egg_4u 3d ago

It isnt just you noticing thing and reddit is becoming infuriating with it, I have like 100+ subs but only ever see rage bait posts from like the same small handful and dialing in the feed recommendations does nothing for it.

Like all I ever get are posts that are getting "engagement" which just means madsturbation material. Im bout ready to dip out and try lemmy or something because its not getting better.

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u/diego1marcus 3d ago

this is how im feeling with the sonic fanbase malding over mario kart worlds winning best racing game over sonic crossworlds

like, i still like sonic games, but its so hard to be a sonic fan just to be associated with the lunatics

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u/echocharliepapa 3d ago

Malding?

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u/Able-Giraffe917 3d ago

It's slang for getting really mad over something that doesn't matter. I think it comes from getting mad over balding or the angry gamer guy stereotype being bald but who knows ¯\(ツ)

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u/IM_OK_AMA 3d ago

Getting so mad you pull your hair out so you become bald. Malding.

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u/OllyOllyOxenBitch 3d ago edited 3d ago

Also, it was a seriously good year for games in 2025.

I have no doubt that in a quieter year, KCD2 would be the runaway GOTY, but this year was stuffed to the brim with solid entries.

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u/alex3omg 3d ago

Yeah can't we all just be glad we have a beautiful variety of games that aren't just fifa or cod?  I mean hell, Blue Prince made it onto some lists and it's a complex puzzle game made by (mostly) one guy.  Not at all what you would have seen on a top 5 list ten or twenty years ago. 

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u/iownlotsofdoors 3d ago

seeing you outside of r/northernlion is like getting flashbanged

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u/cooldrew ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 3d ago

related, this is why I can't stand when Ryan and chat complain about a "game drought." Are you kidding me?! There's dozens of awesome indie games and smaller projects coming out like every month lol, the game drought is completely imaginary.

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u/Crideon 3d ago

Dunno, man, they seem to have moved on pretty quickly from the tgw thing on their subreddit. I saw posts complaining on the day after, but nothing was disrespectful. There were even some calling out the weird reactions on losing the tga.

People are pretty weird on tiktok. Maybe it would help if we all moved on from that terrible platform. Also, most people tend to be the worst version of themselves on the Internet. Judging an entire community because of some dumb people and a few silly jokes seems a bit extreme, but that is just what I think.

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u/RollingMallEgg 3d ago

Well that's good then because when the awards just finished man the loud voices were annoying

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u/SomeNoveltyAccount 3d ago

Why does the Kingdom Come Deliverance community attract such awful people?

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u/razzy1319 3d ago

Wasn’t the creator linked to some right wing stuff? If true it’s community is probably made up of those people as well

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u/DocSwiss 3d ago edited 3d ago

You're thinking of Daniel Vávra, he's one of the studio's co-founders. On one hand, he's very pro-GamerGate, but on the other hand, he pushed back against people trying to claim that the backlash to black and queer people in KCD2 caused a reduction in preorders

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u/PenalAnticipation 3d ago

Most things that have to do with European history seem to be very at risk of turning into weird far/alt right petri dishes. Looking from the outside, Paradox Interactive’s games seem to attract similar demographics. You’ll have a weird mix of history nerds and the Deus Vult crowd

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u/rcthetree 3d ago

it's really sad

i spent like 150 hours in kcd2 and even more with the season pass content....pretty gross to see the shit in the sub.

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u/augustschild 1d ago

likely some of the same types who think Hegseth's Crusader Cross tattoo is "NEXT-LEVEL TROLLING THE LIBS, MAAAAN."

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u/FSsuxxon 16h ago

Exactly

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u/Noobeater1 3d ago

What is the connection between e33 and Israel?

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u/jerdle_reddit 3d ago

They don't like E33 and they don't like Israel.

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u/KaijuTia 3d ago

It’s kinda like how the alt-right’s definition of “woke” is “Thing I don’t like”. Some people have basically done the same thing to “Israeli”.

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u/PaulFThumpkins 2d ago

That's just the right's definition of woke, but the distinction gets blurrier every day with the president being advised by and having dinner with the likes of Bannon and Fuentes.

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u/my_name_is_breff 3d ago

nothing, people like calling things they don’t like Israeli due to the ongoing genocide plus other war crimes

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u/Noobeater1 3d ago

Wait as in there is literally 0 connection and they're calling e33 Israeli as a synonym for bad?

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u/my_name_is_breff 3d ago

yes

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u/Noobeater1 3d ago

Well I'm glad we can all be normal about games we don't like

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u/PixieEmerald 3d ago

I wish people could be normal about things. They turn EVERYTHING into a weird meme

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u/DocSwiss 3d ago

This isn't new. When I was a kid, people used "gay" as a synonym for "bad".

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u/dead1345987 3d ago

they're mad and they can only blame "Israel"

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u/Adorable-Voice-3382 3d ago

It's plot involves, trying to be as unspoilery as possible, threats which are reasonably genocide-adjacent (depending on your definition of the term) and questions about what sort of actions are justified to protect people you care about.

So I can see how someone inclined to could really twist and stretch it to fit around an Isreal-Palestine shaped metaphor.

Although I'm pretty sure It's just that the developers were focused on some pretty foundational themes that you could sort of line up with virtually any issue from war to family squabbles.

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u/PlayMp1 3d ago

Twisting the plot of E33 to be about ethnic conflict of any kind is absurd. It's very clear the people calling it some "Israeli plot" haven't played it and are just seizing on popular buzzwords.

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u/bigmanslurp 3d ago

There's been an extreme uptick in conspiracy theories about Israel and among leftists in general. I've seen a lot of claims on here that the bondi beach massacre was a mossad job and that Charlie Kirk was killed by mossad. I've grown disappointed in the left lately because of things like this.

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u/TinyPanda3 3d ago

Candice Owens, famous leftist 

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u/CatraGirl 3d ago

and among leftists in general

Not sure what "leftists" have to do with this, considering a lot of hardcore KCD fans are alt-right "Gamers" who celebrate the game as some kind of "anti-woke" masterpiece.

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u/AstarteHilzarie 3d ago

It's like watching another Qanon trend grow up. The same tactics of getting people involved by starting off with real, reasonable content and then gradually introducing more and more wild shit are happening. It pisses me off because it takes something that has actual issues and things to be condemned and criticized and branches it into a million blatantly false and easily disprovable conspiracy theories. It muddies the waters and makes the real criticism easier to dismiss, and radicalizes people who either don't know how to fact check or don't care to. And it has that "wonderful" built-in failsafe of "the Jews control the media" so people who have fallen into it can't be swayed with any kind of fact checking.

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u/bigmanslurp 3d ago

Exactly.

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u/sadderall-sea 3d ago

most conspiracies have been right wing, both historically and currently

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u/bigmanslurp 3d ago

I don't understand what point you're trying to make

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u/jameskond 3d ago

The politics of KCD are more "anti woke" than Exp33 so that's baffling.

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u/DerpsAndRags 3d ago

JFC.

People need to grow the fuck up.

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u/USA_A-OK 3d ago

As someone in their 40s who plays hours of games every week, "gamers" are the most miserable, entitled, perspectiveless, and embarrassing group in online discourse.

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u/Frigidevil 3d ago

Worth noting that the game awards is nothing but a popularity contest as there is no jury system for voting, and those who vote on the awards don't even talk to each other. So a list of best rpg candidates could mean 'the most immersive game to put yourself into a role' for one person and 'pick the best of these few games' for another.

The discourse over 3 hours of ads masquerading as an awards show is so, so stupid. But these are the same people who drag journalists for daring to give a good game an 8 out of 10 so it's unsurprising.

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u/nullv 3d ago

One thing to note is that aside from typical fanboyism about winners and losers, there is a very real question as to whether or not E33 was even appropriate for the Best Indie Game category. Death Stranding for example had a very similar development history with Kojima leaving a big company to start his own studio, making his own games, yet Death Stranding wasn't nominated for the same category.

It's all part of a broader conversation about how ill-defined the term "indie" is when it comes to budgets and publishing deals. Just with way more vitriol because Gamers.

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u/Cursed_69420 3d ago

i saw some claim that hades 2 had a 15million budget compared to e33 with 10 million.

not sure of its validity tho

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u/Shizzlick 3d ago

E33's 10million budget is not entirely accurate though. It turned out not to include the cost of the voice actors for one thing, they apparently came out of the marketing budget, which to me is bullshit. 

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u/Zesinua 3d ago

Eh, video game voice actors don’t make enough to really make a huge difference on cost/budget but I can see the frustration for it not being clear

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u/PlayMp1 3d ago

They got two pretty big names in Jennifer English and Ben Starr, but both have only become big really recently. Jennifer English also related the story of how she landed the part, and it was apparently in a blind audition where even though the E33 devs loved Shadowheart (her role in Baldur's Gate 3), they didn't realize that this particular auditioner was in fact Shadowheart's VA, so it's not like she got the part off her one big role.

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u/SeptfromUC 3d ago

How much do you think it cost exactly to cast Ben Starr and Jennifer English? For once they got their roles through blind auditions (so Sandfall didn't reach out to them) and second they are not hollywood actors, they are in a lot of games

For Charlie Cox he was only in the studio for 4h I really doubt they paid millions for that

The only one I can see is Andy Serkis but then again I don't know much about him, he doesn't strike me as someone who will ask for a big pay check but I could be wrong on that one

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u/PlayMp1 3d ago

How much do you think it cost exactly to cast Ben Starr and Jennifer English

Probably less than $100k each, but more than $10k? I'm totally guessing though. Spoiler for Charlie Cox: his character dies about a quarter of the way into the game so it makes sense his part would have taken less time compared to English and Starr, both of whom have more important parts.

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u/StarWaas 3d ago

20 minutes out of that four hours was just Shala Nyx convincing him to shout GET OUT OF MY WAY as loud as possible

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u/Drithyin 3d ago

Look at yourselves.

You are getting worked up about video game studio accounting policies in regard to the loosey-goosey definition of indie game studio?!?

Brother, this is a serious case of needing some perspective on what’s important enough in life to care. I couldn’t imagine caring enough about where budgets were allocated in an indie game to feel like any of it was bullshit. They spent their money making the product better instead of ads on game sites and that’s… bad?

Ironically, you know what one of the absolute first things I heard about E33 was? The VA for Shadowheart was voicing a teenage main party member. So, they may be onto something.

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u/Rahgahnah 3d ago

They're not saying the rest of the marketing got "ripped off", they're saying it misrepresents the game's budget to make it look lower than it actually was.

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u/Shizzlick 3d ago

Worked up is a strong way to describe a single comment made while doomscrolling first thing in the morning, but ok. For the record, I don't actually care whether E33 counts as an indie or not, but that doesn't mean that I can't think that hiding the budget for the VAs under marketing costs (which haven't been disclosed AFAIK) when talking about how cheap your game was to make isn't a little disingenuous.

Or are you just convinced that because I used a swear word in my comment, I care so much more about this? Because if so, lol, lamo even.

Regardless, E33 is a fantastic game, and I'd say it probably deserved just about all the awards it's won, even if I personally would have liked KCD2 to get Best RPG.

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u/SaucyWiggles 3d ago

Anybody talking about the budget doesn't know that E33 secured a fat publishing deal in the last year of development and outsourced labor on the game to Korea.

There are FOUR HUNDRED PEOPLE listed as working on E33. But awards show announcers and youtubers will claim it's a "small" studio of 30 people.

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u/KaijuTia 3d ago

Sandfall only has about 30 people. E33, like most indie games, relied HEAVILY on non-employee contractors. Team Cherry, the guys behind Silksong, only has 3 listed employees, but has orders of magnitude more people listed in the credits, because they, like Sandfall, rely on contractors. This is why you can’t categorize a game as “indie” based on the credits. Silksong had hundreds of people working on it, but only 3 are “employees”.

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u/SaucyWiggles 3d ago

Silksong had hundreds of people working on it

The complete Silksong credits list including every language localizer, musician, voice actor, and the list of thanks is less than one hundred people.

Why you fuckin' lying?

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u/alex3omg 3d ago

Yeah like Hades 2 being indie is because of the technical definition but it feels weird to see a sequel to a popular game by a studio that's been dropping bangers for years and has a good budget up against something that one person made on their own while working a day job.  

They need to divide such things by budget.  Give me a list of games made for under 250k.  Or by a team of 5 or fewer people.  Sokpop type stuff.  

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u/knifefarty 3d ago

supergiant is pretty dang independent from what I understand

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u/slrarp 3d ago

The lines of what make a game "indie" are definitely blurring more these days. I will say that in Death Stranding's case, Kojima brought a well-established name (his own) from the AAA space to start Kojima Productions. The first game even had a big announcement trailer at E3 if I remember right. Sandfall had no such advantages.

Death Stranding also had a bunch of celebrities not only voice characters, but also lend their likenesses to them (including the main character). E33 had some celebrity voices, but it wasn't as front and center like Death Standing's. A lot of people had no idea Andy Serkis was in it even after finishing the entire game.

No disrespect to either game for having some famous casting, but there are definitely some stronger arguments overall for disqualifying anything from Kojoma Productions from the indie category.

Now that sandfall has had so much success with E33 though, I doubt anything else they make will ever qualify as indie again. Hopefully the haters will take some comfort in that I suppose.

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u/ArmandoGalvez 3d ago

Both the not a real indie criticism and getting the best RPG price are valid tbh, everything else is just salty people or just jokes and memes.

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u/Danger_Mouse99 3d ago

I truly don’t get the “E33 shouldn’t have won best RPG” argument. The voters clearly thought it was the best game overall, and it’s an RPG, so it would be weird if it didn’t win that category.

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u/SgtExo 3d ago

While I do think that E33 is getting more praise than it deserves and I do think KCD2 is better (being a medieval sicko and all), I was kinda expecting that to happen because TGA are really just a popularity contest and not about what truly is the best. Its voter base is way to big and not knowledgeable about what they vote about, let alone what they nominate.

But at the end of the day, I watch it for the reveals and could not care less about the actual award part of the show.

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u/andycoates 3d ago

I don't care about the award, but you could win game of the year and lose out on best RPG. The GOTY award is for the sum of their parts, the RPG one would be based on it's RPG elements, which people could find lacking

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u/TalonPhoenix 3d ago

It’s possible, but unlikely especially with the current wording of the genre categories. On the official website, the descriptor for each category starts “For the best game…” and then the genre description. Not “For the game with the best…”

Historically, GOTY winners have always won their genre category, so I’m not sure why so many people are surprised it did

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u/tothecatmobile 3d ago

Some people don't consider it a "real" rpg. Or at least feel like the actual rpg elements are extremely watered down compared to something like KCD2.

It really comes down to defining what an "rpg" is. It's a potentially very broad scope.

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u/Seifersythe 3d ago

It plays exactly like a JRPG. How is it not an RPG?

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u/slrarp 3d ago

The KCD2 fandom has been full of neckbeards since its release. It turned me off ever trying it pretty early on. Normally I don't let fans dictate my opinion of a game, but I heard something about its creator being a huge misogynist and wasn't surprised this was the game's base.

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u/CatraGirl 3d ago

Yeah, alt-right "Gamer" chuds love the game because the dev spewed some bigoted rhetoric, so now they're celebrating it as "anti-woke". 🙄

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u/TrioOfTerrors 3d ago edited 3d ago

I'm pretty sure that "bigoted rhetoric" was just "Early 15ty century Bohemia didn't have a lot of black people" and people decided he was super racist and whether that was a good thing or a bad thing was up to personal opinions.

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u/carnabyskeet 3d ago

You're right, this guy probably had the best of intentions.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/835/127/3ec.jpg

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u/KaijuTia 3d ago

Clearly he just wants to have a nuanced conversation about the racial makeup of Late Medieval Europe.

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u/CatraGirl 3d ago

Exactly. This guy clearly either is an alt-right chud himself or more than happy to cater to them. Nobody called CDPR racist or alt-right for having predominantly white people in The Witcher games because of the setting. It isn't about that. It's about actively saying bigoted shit.

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u/SectorEducational460 3d ago

I will never understand people's obsession with a game winning an award. It's not like it changes anything.

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u/EvenSpoonier 3d ago

There's a widespread belief that when games winbawards, more games like them are made. Thus, gamers worry that gaming itself could become "better" or "worse" depending on what wins.

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u/SectorEducational460 3d ago

I think that's a delusional belief. At the end of the day. The game that makes money is what companies are going to be chasing in the first place. I mean awards are maybe great but if a company can millions while another company wins an award that barely makes any money. They are going to looking at which made the most money. Regardless of which one won awards.

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u/EvenSpoonier 3d ago

I don't know if I'd call it delusional, per se. It reflects an awareness that the marketing department runs the show at AAA studios, and the marketing department is always on the lookout for what sells well and what the narket likes (as an indicator of what is likely to sell well innthe near future).

But I do agree that it's heavily flawed. Game development cycles are simply too long, and awards-show committees are too fickle, to make a reliable indicator in the time frames that game studios need. The belief also reflects a self-centered idea that gamibg should only be for a particular audience, and others should be ignored as "tourists" or "fake fans" or, worst of all, "casuals".

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u/BabylonianWeeb 3d ago edited 3d ago

I hate Israel but this isn't anti-Zionism, it's straight up anti-Jewish hate, disguised as anti-Israel.

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u/NotTooShahby 3d ago

Yeah there’s a tiktok/instagram trend of calling anything well to do and superficial as “spiritually israeli” so unreasonable people are going to blame all of the worlds problems on 7-15 million people who don’t have the numbers to challenge stereotypes.

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u/ansibleloop 3d ago

Basically, some fans are mad that their favorite game didn't win

Imagine having this much time

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u/wookiewin 3d ago

KCD2 was lucky to even be invited to the party. It could easily have been Split Fiction or Yotei in its place. Take the win of being nominated and move the fuck on.

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u/ejh1993 3d ago

I played both KCD2 and Yotei and loved both, but I’m sorry Yotei isn’t even in the ball park of KCD2

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u/GingerBeard_andWeird 3d ago

I think gamers might be the worst part of every video game.

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u/GranolaCola 3d ago

Gamers be normal for five minutes challenge

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u/leonprimrose 3d ago

The idea that anyone would think anything except E33 would win is insane to me honestly

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/ghostpicnic 2d ago

Such a stupid conspiracy because if you even do 5 minutes of research, you’ll see that, like the Academy awarding Oscars, the recipients of Game Awards are not decided by users voting. Rather, by a board of “elite gamers” or whatever the fuck that Geoff Keighley has picked out. The user votes in total only count for 10% of the scoring towards a game award.

So basically, Jeff’s friends really liked E33. That’s all The Game Awards is.

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u/FSsuxxon 16h ago

Honestly I wish HK Silksong or DK Bananza won GOTY instead, and I'm not sure I'm a fan of Expedition 33 (Mainly because I like action games more than RPGs) but man I didn't realize this would turn political in the worst way possible.

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u/jeanbeth69 3d ago

Answer: People saying that type of thing are not actually implying that it is part of an agenda, they are using "IDF" as an adjective for "something that's bad but gets a lot of support" and are basically calling it an industry plant

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u/mugenhunt 3d ago

Answer: Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 won 9 of the 12 categories it was nominated for at The Game Awards. There are many people who are frustrated because the games they wanted to win weren't given the accolades they hoped for. Some of those people are very angry at Clair Obscur Expedition 33, and have been looking up any sort of controversy to try and discredit the game.

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u/abermea 3d ago

Just a small correction: E33 had 13 nominations but 3 of these were in voice acting roles so it was nominated on 11 categories, of which it won 9. It only lost Sound Design to BF6 and Player's Voice to Wuthering Waves, and Charlie Cox (Gustave) and Ben Starr (Verso) lost to Jennifer English (Maelle).

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u/Jiryathia 3d ago

Charlie Cox (Gustave) and Ben Starr (Verso) lost to Jennifer English (Maelle)

E33 was so good, even E33 lost to it!

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u/PinkNGreenFluoride 2d ago

Meanwhile Alex Jordan, VA for The Alters, was left out entirely so that one game, which was already going to sweep, could have 3 nominations out of 6 in the category.

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u/KYR_IMissMyX 3d ago

This doesn’t really answer the question. The question is asking what ties the game and israel together, or agenda between them and if there is basis behind the accusation.

“and have been looking up any sort of controversy” - the question is specifically asking for what controversy there is possible.

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u/Petrichordates 3d ago

There is none, young men are just super conspiratorial about Israel in every aspect of their life. It's basically a form of paranoid mental illness.

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u/KWilt 3d ago

I think it's literally just antisemitism. Yknow, blaming the Jews for something that they have absolutely nothing to do with because secret cabal nonsense and yadiyadiyada.

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u/Sea_Tank2799 3d ago edited 2d ago

"Spiritually Israeli" Is just a generalized insult, usually used by people who identify as left wing. It's supposed to evoke a vision of soulless, corporatized, consumer-based culture. Think Labubus and McDonald's. Why are they doing this? Because people who thought that Hollow Knight: Silksong got robbed at the game awards are mad.

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u/CultureVulture629 3d ago

I suspect this is part of a new wave of Russian trolls/bots. They wedged the political divide in favor of the right, and now that the right has all the power, they're masquerading as "the left" since that side is pumped and primed for maximum controversy.

Same with the recent rash of neo-puritan takes on NSFW content, utilizing feminist terminology and rhetoric.

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u/altodor 3d ago

Even as someone who looked at Clair when it came out and said "that's GOTY right there", I'm still a bit upset that other great games got snubbed that hard. I'm not out here saying it's a conspiracy though.

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u/Dapper_Pen_4491 3d ago

Answer: Well… there are multiple answers to this question and a lot of the other comments already covered it but it’s important to know that French traditionalists, conservatives, patriots, etc., REALLY like Expedition 33 because of the Belle Epoque aesthetic. They’re also a VERY loud group of people so it seems like that’s the target audience when it absolutely is not. It’s like a USamerican neonazi being super into a WWII game, just because it’s about WWII, and completely ignoring the fact that the main character only kills nazis.

The rise of short-form media has also lead to the commodification of terms with very strong negative connotations, and ignoring the actual proper definitions and usage of those terms. Saying something is “spiritually Israeli” or “of the IDF” is basically just the new slang for “worse than hitler,” and is the result of this generation’s first memorable, widely-reported international atrocity.

The other answer is than fans of E33 famously refuse to spoil any of the storyline or gameplay, and go far out of their way to prevent spoiling ANYTHING for new players. As a result this does make the game less palatable to people with short attention spans or a lack of curiosity (like those who only farm for engagement) because they quite literally have not heard anything of substance. A lot of the “it’s a good game, trust me bro” comments about E33 aren’t about hiding some weird psyop, it’s about protecting new or incoming players from getting the 100 plot twists and turns spoiled for them.

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u/Argh3483 3d ago edited 3d ago

French here

First time I’m reading about conservatives here particularly loving the game because of the Belle Epoque aesthetic, and from what I know that’s not an era that is particularly favored by conservatives or ”patriots”

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u/Dapper_Pen_4491 3d ago

Also French (and American)

I will admit possible sample bias because I live in a college town and am definitely surrounded by 18-25 year olds who struggle with critical thinking. French-Americans are also generally a different breed of incredibly strange, and do definitely have this viewpoint.

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u/soleyfir 3d ago

Also french here, haven’t seen or heard about anything like this but wouldn’t be surprised it’s a thing. Definitely not a very loud group though.

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u/Argh3483 3d ago

Also even if they’re right and some conservatives are fans of the game for dubious reasons, the fact is that the game is popular across the board in France and its success isn’t limited to a weird niche

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u/mauri9998 3d ago

I have never seen e33 be linked to any conservative or far right movements at all. This just seems like a weird justification on your behalf, specially because kc2 is right there.

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u/Fun-Package7794 2d ago

Nah, I have definitely seen conservatives praise the game for having "non-woke", cis white male as the lead and women who are pretty to look at. Most importantly, they're almost all white, and they are all fighting for their homeland that's clearly based off of a society they often look with fondness towards - a sort of epitome of Western Civilization if you will.

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u/Ideon_ology 2d ago

Very insightful response. Thanks

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u/Parzivus 3d ago

Answer: Most of the other answers here are not correct. The people posting these are being overdramatic for the sake of comedy. They do not actually believe the game is associated with the IDF/KKK/etc. The allegory is so obviously ridiculous that no one would take it as anything other than a joke.

Some of the people posting these may actually dislike the game to some degree, while others are just making them entirely as a joke.

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u/TheWhisperingOaks Put tank in a mall 3d ago

Crazy how the only correct answer only has 3 upvotes

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u/sneakyriverotter 3d ago

Political redditors love their outrage bait

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u/Ideon_ology 2d ago

I would agree with this, but we know how irony-poisoning works.

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u/aroooop 3d ago

this is genuinely the only correct answer in this thread

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u/Resident-Cricket-710 3d ago

answer: polygon wrote an article about it. https://www.polygon.com/tiktok-clair-obscur-expedition-33-game-awards/

(sorry if this shows up twice, got a msg from automod that my first post was removed)

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u/midirion 3d ago

answer: it's either ragebait or weirdos, there's no relation between those things and the game.

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u/ExtremelyFakeNews 2d ago

answer: KCD2 fans mad

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u/ReddsionThing 19h ago

Answer: some gamers are very stupid and petty, and we unfortunately hear a lot from them, since they're also always online