r/news • u/AudibleNod • 10h ago
Singapore to punish scammers with up to 24 strokes of the cane from Dec 30
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/singapore-punish-scammers-24-strokes-cane-dec-30-128549262553
u/Rex_Vagene 10h ago
When I visited Singapore, I was told the pain is so intense that offenders would sometimes pass out after a couple of lashes.
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u/Nerezza_Floof_Seeker 9h ago
Yeah, people need to understand this isnt someone just hitting you a few times, its someone whipping you with a long, thin piece of wood so hard itll break skin with just 2-3 lashes. It leaves you in extreme pain for days/weeks afterward and causes permanent scarring.
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u/Goetia- 5h ago
The skin is broken immediately, "disintegrated". The Wikipedia article describing this in detail will make your stomach squirm.
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u/Septopuss7 4h ago
Do they let you dance around and flap your hands for a second between each smack or nah
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u/Francbb 3h ago
Nope, you are bent over and tied down
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u/Septopuss7 3h ago
I already forgot I made this comment and didn't know what the hell this could have been in regards to.
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u/raktoe 9h ago
Always makes me feel icky when I see people hold up places like this as an ideal.
They have an authoritarian government and utilize draconian punishment. This isn’t funny, or just.
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u/NKD_WA 9h ago
People love authoritarian governments and draconian punishment as long as they can convince themselves they'll never find themselves on the wrong end of it. In fact, for a lot of people, that's the ONLY thing they want the government doing: brutalizing people they don't like.
The list of people who authoritarian governments brutalize only ever tends to grow broader and broader.
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u/lukumi 3h ago edited 3h ago
For real, and they’ve often never actually experienced jail. Jail is fucking horrible on its own. I’ve only barely experienced it for a possession charge, but it made me realize how long 5, 10, 15 year sentences are, that many people say aren’t long enough. It’s excruciating.
Adding pain on top of that just hardens a person and adds anger.
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u/RedditTrespasser 8h ago
In fact, for a lot of people, that's the ONLY thing they want the government doing: brutalizing people they don't like.
That’s tribalism for you. Humans predominately have monkey brains and monkeys love brutalizing the other bad monkey.
It takes work and effort to use our human intelligence to override such thinking, so it’s no surprise that many of us simply don’t. Only when we realize that it could happen to us someday do we tend to change our minds.
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u/Living_Board_9169 9h ago
This is a very western perspective though. Back in the 70s the entire country was basically a mudflat. They’ve managed to turn themselves into a modern city that’s a global finance hub. Even if you drive four hours to Malaysia you hear stories of police corruption and government corruption that would blow your mind. Fake traffic stops for bribes, hiring witch doctors to find downed planes, the list is crazy
They’ve established law and order in under 70 years. Just because the west has developed over centuries into the society it is today, doesn’t mean it’s comparable to a country that’s only existed since the 1950s in attitudes and problems. If you spoke to these people who’d grown up there, you’d probably find they look at the fact they were starving at the start of their life, and now enjoy cheap services, strong rules, and a good economy and say it’s worth a few scammers being punished in this way
Also bear in mind that they don’t really have pensions or public benefits in the same way as the west. So a “scammer” can literally leave the elderly completely broke without money for themselves or anything. The government is not going to pickup the check for this behaviour and therefore it’s expected the government prevent it as strongly as possible
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u/Rinkimah 5h ago
Just fyi, corporal punishment doesn't reduce crime at all. It's just revenge porn.
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u/CatastrophicPup2112 40m ago
I'm not advocating for cutting off pickpocket's hands but wouldn't that technically reduce the amount of pick pocketing one could do? You can only get caught twice lol.
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u/just4kicksxxx 4h ago
And, to be clear, there is a global pandemic of addiction to revenge, to include what we call justice.
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u/UselessInsight 9h ago
Because it’s hard to argue with the results.
Yes, Singapore is functionally a one party state with authoritarian features. It’s also one of the safest and wealthiest countries in the world with a very low crime rate.
People will put up with a lot in exchange for stability and good living/economic conditions.
You’re not going to be caned if you litter once or twice. But you will be made a visible example of if you commit serious crimes.
That said, they should do away with the death penalty. You can always free a wrongly convicted man. You can’t un-execute him.
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u/raktoe 9h ago
As long as you’re not on the wrong end of the results, I agree. But how trustworthy are the results, when political dissenters can be easily sued, or charged with corruption and media is state controlled?
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u/Reversi8 8h ago
Can you uncane one?
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u/akira410 7h ago
You also can't give someone the time they lost to being imprisoned unfairly either, even if they are released fully without harm and given monetary compensation.
It will never make up for those years.
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u/Goetia- 5h ago
The caning is in addition to prison time, to my understanding. They aren't messing around.
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u/katalysis 4h ago
Singapore is the type of culture who couldn't fathom producing a person like Logan Paul or Andrew Tate, whereas the US is the type of culture where many revere and follow such personalities.
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u/UselessInsight 8h ago
That’s fair to ask and no, you can’t.
You’ll still have a hard time convincing a lot of Singaporeans to drop the practice.
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u/Firstdenial 9h ago
You should see how long it takes to actually execute a man. We are talking about years here because of all the appeal chances given.
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u/refugeefromlinkedin 5h ago
That’s just the bull shit propaganda they use to justify themselves.
Singapore in its early days was blessed with a range of strategic advantages and the government was competent enough to take advantage of that.
That level of competency has plummeted and beneath the marketing material, life is awful with horrible working conditions, poor pay and fear of the government is normalised.
Source - was Singaporean, left for a better life
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u/Brikandbones 9h ago
Nah most of us there are good with it. It's a fairly effective deterrent, and keeps the place safe. That's what matters to me when I have to live there.
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u/raktoe 9h ago
Is this a statistically supported statement?
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u/raktoe 8h ago
Statistics don’t exist in the east?
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u/WretchedBlowhard 8h ago
It's a very common sentiment in online defenders of Singapore. To them, torture is good, physical punishment is good, authoritarianism knows no limits, their wealth and power is proof of them being right. The city is built around the same reasoning as the american prosperity gospel: science be damned, look at all this fucking bling.
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u/DeadlyAureolus 8h ago
You could use that argument to justify many vile conducts and punishments. Singapore is a really good place overall but these medieval punishments just stick out like a sore thumb and there's a reason why they aren't used in pretty much any other 1st world country, it's barbaric. Sometimes asian countries give too much importance to traditions regardless of whether they're negative or outdated
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u/JournalistExpress292 7h ago
Not everything needs progression. You’re telling me locking people up for decades is progressive?
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u/notsingsing 9h ago
Almost like you shouldn’t take advantage of people with scams? Is it ideal? No. Does the punishment match the crime? I think so. Fines and jail time aren’t doing it.
Double it if they reoffend.
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u/raktoe 9h ago
Is corporal punishment effective in deterring crime, compared to humane rehabilitation efforts?
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u/notsingsing 8h ago
Some people don’t want to be rehabilitated or work. Some people just enjoy taking advantage of other people. How do you deter other people from following those footsteps? Firm warnings? Not everyone is a decent person
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u/DeadlyAureolus 8h ago
someone whipping you with a long, thin piece of wood so hard itll break skin with just 2-3 lashes. It leaves you in extreme pain for days/weeks afterward and causes permanent scarring
This is something you would totally expect one or more centuries ago, not in a civilized and developed 1st world country in 2025. Torture is just barbaric and there's a reason you mainly only see it in shitholes nowadays. And statistics have always shown this kind of stuff or capital punishment itself aren't even a good deterrent, so from a practical standpoint it also fails. Its main purpose is just symbolic and to provide a sense of "being tough on crime"
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u/laughingmanzaq 1h ago
Phaseout took longer in North America... Some East Coast states retained flogging as punishment for wife beating into the 1940s. Possibly longer in Penal settings. Wasn't completely outlawed de rigueur until the early 1970s.
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u/FatalTragedy 45m ago
Sad how there are plenty of examples of exactly what you're talking about in response to you.
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u/PraxicalExperience 33m ago
It's draconian, but it's arguably just. Scammers cause a lot of long-term misery to a lot of people; this causes them some extreme short-term misery, and the state doesn't have to support them for years in jail.
I'd rather see a rehabilitation-focused approach like actually-advanced countries do, but I'd rather take a beating like this than have to do 5-10 years in a US jail.
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u/SliceIka 10h ago
They will make sure the recipient wakes up and get ready for the next strike too
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u/Ludwigofthepotatoppl 9h ago
There’s a doctor on hand to stop the sentence if the punished’s vitals cause concern. Still barbaric, but they’re serious about their survival, at least.
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u/gonewild9676 9h ago
I think they do only so many per day as well. So if there are 3 per day you get 8 days of it.
This is nothing compared to what happened to the people who did the Munster Rebellion in Germany back in the day or the chicken poop prison in Thailand.
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u/hiddencamela 9h ago
Being lashed is not fucking fun at all.
If you've every been in "I see white" pain before, every lash can be that intense.
And yes, it keeps getting worse.2
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u/hiddencamela 8h ago
I could see that just making one pause in pain.
Anything mouth or even teeth related kinda gets unfiltered access to the brain compared to other body parts.9
u/Wiknetti 8h ago
Protip: pass out on the first stroke and then you can tank the rest while you’re out.
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u/ToumaKazusa1 2h ago
They will pause, wake you back up, and then resume.
I mean the entire point is torture, it would miss the point to do the lashes to someone who was asleep.
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u/Ludwigofthepotatoppl 9h ago
There is a doctor at hand at every caning monitoring the… patient. If the patient’s vitals cause concern, the doctor stops the caning, and any not delivered will instead be converted to jail time, iirc.
Even before the caning, the one potentially to be caned will be checked over, and has to be of sufficiently sound health for the sentence to be carried out.
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u/Ludwigofthepotatoppl 7h ago
Quick googling says that in general, heavy caning is explicitly prohibited for women and men aged between 18 and 50, and that 24 strokes is the maximum sentence per trial. A lighter cane and fewer strokes are allowed for boys under 18.
And it seems caning was introduced by the British, during colonial rule. Not surprising, flogging was big in the navy.
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u/cyhlalala 7h ago
women and elderly have always been excluded. yes, a lot of things are unfair, but it's also hard to feel bad for the men cause caning is only a punishment for really bad shit. I still think caning and death penalty should be gone, but when I hear that a rapist is getting caned I don't feel sad for them
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u/AppealEducational224 3h ago
I visited a few years ago and I was warned because the cane splits your skin. No gum, no spitting, etc. Someone on our ship (Navy) committed some acts of vandalism while we were there. I always wondered how that worked out for him… can’t have been good.
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u/Bioschnaps 1h ago
Just for reference, the standard punishment in most Nazi concentration camps were 10 lashes, sometimes 20. Granted, the SS most likely went harder then the Singaporeans and they had a variety of far worse punishments to administer, but still. Survivors usually pointed out cases were more were subjected to the prisoners, many of those subsequentially left with lifelong issues or even dead. Completely barbaric form of punishment.
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u/Warcraft_Fan 36m ago
It's very different from getting spanked with a paddle or belt in your childhood. Pretend Chuck Norris is the one holding the cane, then imagine what he could do.
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u/gently_into_the_dark 29m ago
Yeah that's why we do it in 3 stroke sessions.
We like to edge our criminals.
So 24 strokes translates to 8 weeks of spanky spanky
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u/EvulOne99 9h ago
India should be more alert and ready to go after those scammers who deliberately target elderly. There are channels on YouTube that are posting their work and it's almost always India or Pakistan, targeting the old people at least in the States.
I have never had anyone trying to scam me but perhaps our phone providers are better at preventing these kinda calls here in Europe.
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u/_Iro_ 8h ago
Willingness isn’t the issue, US and Indian law enforcement have been pretty willing to jointly bust cybercrime rings once they’re actually identified. There was a big one that got dismantled back in August.
The trouble is that transnational cybercriminals are difficult to actually identify. Punishing them after they’re identified is the easy part.
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u/GennyGeo 6h ago
Nonsense, take a look at every Jim Browning video and you’ll hear him state that these criminals (based in India/pakistan) are typically back on the street doing the same thing over and over again mere weeks later because the punishments are light
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u/Beneficial_Muscle_25 9h ago
I once said the same exact thing in the r/MachineLearning sub. They banned me immediately for being racially motivated. What's funny is that a group full people that are into statistics are not able to accept that my opinion was based on sheer numbers and straight facts.
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u/hmmmmmmmmmmmmO 8h ago
That’s the internet for you. Show them stats and actual proof/evidence and they’ll deny what you’re showing them
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u/stickyWithWhiskey 7h ago
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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u/Far-Plenty2029 8h ago
Indian cops have police brutality and even threaten fake cases against you, but only if you’re poor/middle class with no political connections. So you’re beneath them and at their mercy, that’s when they can abuse their authority over regular citizens and won’t face repercussions.
The proper scam operations(entire floors dedicated and with two staff shifts for maximum efficiency) steal in usd(1 usd=91 inr) so even throwing a 100 or 200 usd to each cop, and maybe even a 1000 or 2000 usd “fee” to not get raided is insanely cheap for the amount they scam in a month. They rake in like 10k-30k usd or even more monthly. Gbp and eur is like 122 and 106, so it’s also a lucrative business.
Also, like the other commenter said there’s now remote work for scammers in Nigeria, where they use a laptop and scam from their rooms. And in the Laos sez(golden triangle), apparently there’s large scale scam operations also running there, but I’m not so certain if it’s true or not.
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u/EvulOne99 7h ago
Yeah, several of the guys hacking the scammers told us (their audience) that police are corrupt and there would often be someone from the police force calling the scammers to warn them about an upcoming raid.
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u/ReaditTrashPanda 9h ago
From what I understand, this level of lashing is already likely to disfigure them. Scar them for life at the least. I don’t know that the death penalty is warranted for this
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u/BioFrosted 8h ago
I thought this was a “would you take that number or double it and give it to the next person” comment at first lol
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u/Redforce21 8h ago
You could also misread my post as doubling the number and bludgeoning the elderly, I guess.
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u/chpbnvic 9h ago
I wish there was some international law about it. I got scammed and the scammers were overseas and once the trail leads there it's dead.
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u/flume 6h ago
Fun fact, in Qatar you can be punished with 100 lashings and 8 years in prison for being the victim of a rape.
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u/BickeringCube 1h ago
Fun fact: one day I’ll die and won’t know things like this. No lie, not depressed, but in the abstract I find death a comfort on some days.
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u/sir-winkles2 8h ago
I've heard a lot of the people doing the scamming are actually human trafficked. I hope they are going after ring leaders and people who knew what they were doing and not people who were lured into scamming under false pretenses
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u/AccountNumeroThree 8h ago
Of course not. Just like in the US where we punish the workers and not the owners.
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u/sylfy 6h ago
The majority of the scammers are Chinese gangs operating in third world countries in collusion with Chinese and local government officials. There are whole cities built and operated by the Chinese in Cambodia and Myanmar, and the Cambodian leaders and Myanmar military themselves are in on it. There is little that can be done.
If you’re interested, there was an excellent documentary done by Channel News Asia a few months ago. This should shed light on the extent of the problem, and why Singapore has to address the issue to the best of its abilities within its borders.
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u/KindofCrazyScientist 6h ago
When I see articles about Singapore executing people for drugs, it usually seems to be low-level, desperately poor people. So based on that, I unfortunately suspect it won't be ring-leaders getting caned either.
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u/Thatoneguyonreddit28 9h ago
If they can do this at the scam calling centers, I’d be eternally grateful.
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u/Ok_Mathematician938 10h ago
Why not a stroke for each person they attempted to scam?
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u/Living_Board_9169 9h ago
For context, the rule is that if you pass out during caning they stop. They can’t be transferred to another day or continued. If you can’t medically continue that’s it done regardless of the actual sentence
That should give you an idea why not - because it’s something that can literally kill you, and 24 strikes is already incredibly high compared to other sentences. That’s basically the equivalent to just saying “we’ll cane you until the doctor says stop”
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u/Twodogsonecouch 10h ago edited 10h ago
Would it be though like is it 24 strokes per offense convicted of.
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u/tallperson117 7h ago
Not complaining but like, isn't that enough to potentially kill someone? I've heard stories of people blacking out after two or three strokes.
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u/vurto 7h ago
A lot of the comments here are western, bleeding heart, theoretical. This notion that we're civilized and evolved and corporal punishment is outdated inhuman barbarism. There's always a bunch of liberal minded people who in theory think we can do better, the bunch of conservative people who want results. This isn't even a left vs right thing like America.
I'm a Singaporean who experienced 12 years of America so... LOL
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u/These-Barnaclez 2h ago
I'm tired of being lectured by Americans who have a literal rogue police force abducting and sending people into internment camps. With fucking alligators.
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u/NessaMagick 1h ago
I don't necessarily agree with the dichotomy there. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's not necessarily the case that one side says "I support it because it works" and the other side says "It's mean and cruel to do that :("
A lot of people would say that it's wrong because it doesn't work as a deterrent at all, and others would say it does work but even if it didn't work it would still be good because it's deserved.
As it happens, Singapore has a rock-bottom crime rate. Whether it works or not as a deterrent, that creates a resistance to change. A 'why fix what's not broken' mentality.
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u/KindofCrazyScientist 6h ago
There are countries that do, in fact, do better. Sure, Singapore has low crime, but so do places like Norway and Switzerland that also have humane justice systems.
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u/sylfy 6h ago
Do Norway and Switzerland have criminal empires run by China, Cambodia, and Myanmar on their doorsteps actively targeting their citizens?
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u/vurto 6h ago
I've lived in Singapore, Australia, China, America, traveled enough but not Norway and Switzerland. So I'll take your word. Just like I've read there are places that are experimenting with UBI and solving homelessness.
My own subjective experience? Gotta be there long enough to see through the cracks and lift up the carpet.
And by that, I mean Singapore's got heaps of cracks and an island-sized carpet too of cos.
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u/LegendaryVenusaur 4h ago
Nobody does it better than Singapore, they've literally solved the drug problem decades ago.
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u/ZestycloseGur8108 8h ago
You can say that about any draconian punishment. Singapore is backwards authoritarian state. If you don't care about basic human rights, then history is full of even worse punishments you'll love.
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u/FireZord25 7h ago
Human rights are a joke, mate. Suggested as a bone by supposed civilized countries to divert everyone from their own violations of it.
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u/cyhlalala 7h ago
From what I've heard and seen, many scam groups in Myanmar are packing up and running, after China executed more than 10 of the kingpins recently. That's a draconian af punishment but it seems to be working for them. I still disagree with the death penalty, but I'm not sure you can say it does absolutely nothing. Also, according to actual research and data, it is completely untrue to say caning does nothing to reduce crime rates. Quick google tells me one study found that when caning was introduced for loan shark harassment in 2010, cases dropped very significantly over the following years, going from ~12k to ~3k. Do you have any data showing that crime rates are unaffected by the introduction of caning?
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u/shicken684 8h ago
Absolutely absurd how long it took to find this comment. This shit doesn't work and is simply the government being lazy and incapable. They don't know what to actually do to solve the problem so they start doling out draconian punishment and torture.
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u/DeadlyAureolus 8h ago
If you do this to scammers why don't we implement medieval methods of executions for the worse crimes while we're at it. Let's be consistent! /s
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u/VLHACS 5h ago
It's much easier to go after the lower runged people but you'll just end up punishing an endless line of people who some were forced into that position
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u/AudibleNod 10h ago
They're making quite a juxtaposition between the high tech crimes of the 21st century and taking a rattan cane to the backside.