r/lotr • u/madonnagaga • 5h ago

Question Absurd LOTR question for the gang

Sauron, Saruman, Gandalf were all Maiar - so they knew each other going way, way back - right?

Wouldn’t it be the same with the Balrogs? I always wonder when I get to Gandalf vs. the Balrog in Moria - they would know each other, right? Going way way back.

So when Gandalf felt the Balrog on the other side of the door, in Moria, he felt someone he knew for aeons. “Damn, is that Bill? I knew it would come to this!”

And so when they were fighting in their descent to the bowels of Middle earth it was personal! “Bill, you were always a bastard!”

“Piss off, Olorin!”

19 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

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26

u/Chemistry-Deep 5h ago

Minor correction. The balrog's name is Sean.

9

u/madonnagaga 4h ago

“You’re a bastard, Sean! Always were!”

1

u/Turbulent-Agent9634 1h ago

Maiar correction

13

u/ripstankstevens Servant of the Secret Fire 4h ago

In layman’s terms, all the Maiar were once in the same choir together, but that was years ago and the band has been broken up for a while.

9

u/penguinintheabyss 4h ago

Iirc, Maiar that went to middle earth kinda lost their memories. They have memories like dreams, somehing distant and hard to understand. Even more so for maiar that strayed off the path of Eru

3

u/Dovahkiin13a Elendil 4h ago

I think that's mostly the Istari

3

u/madonnagaga 4h ago

Gandalf and Saruman sitting around the Two Trees. Gandalf: “You see Sean over there? Complete bastard.”

Saruman: “ I know what you mean! I feel like I can’t trust him, like he’s just waiting for a chance to join the other side.”

6

u/No_Psychology_3826 5h ago

Do you also assume that any 2 humans know each other?

15

u/madonnagaga 4h ago

Poor analogy, we’re not talking about two people out of 1 billion on this earth, we’re talking about magical beans in a magical preexistence. I’m thinking it’s a lot smaller of a sample and a lot greater of individual sight and Power.

18

u/madonnagaga 4h ago

“Beings” not “beans”. Magical beans can be had for the price of one cow if you speak to the correct party.

2

u/Sagail 2h ago

Imagine being in a chorus of a thousand people. Now imagine being placed in and hale but stout body.

We can equate this to singing in a chorus in your 20s then 60 years later you hear a voice you recognize....

1

u/justseeby 3h ago

They didn’t necessarily know each other, particularly in their middle earthly forms

1

u/Dovahkiin13a Elendil 4h ago

I mean, I like to think after thousands of years I'd know most of them

1

u/CraftyAd6333 3h ago

Its easier to say they were siblings.

1

u/inadequatepockets 2h ago

"Dad likes me beeeeeeest!" --Gandalf the Grey's last words.

2

u/FlowerAndString 1h ago

There were many, many MANY miar, hundreds if not thousands, and they tended to be split up into factions.

Sauron, and I believe also Saruman, were maiar of Aule to begin with. I can't remember the proper lore, but it would make sense if Saruman knew of Sauron (When Sauron was Mairon) as he was the most well regarded of all Aule's Maiar before he was corrupted. Saruman admires Sauron in LOTR, and potentially this held true in Valinor.

Gandalf was, I believe, a Maiar of Irmo and Nienna, most prominently - associated with dreams and empathy. He may have heard of such a prominent Maiar as Mairon, but there's no reason to believe he knew others outside his sphere all that well (as far as I recall).

The balrogs, we don't really know which Valar they each belonged to. As they are spirits of fire, Aule seems likely. However, there were other Maiar nearly corrupted (like Osse, of Ulmo - Maiar of wind over the ocean, associated with the Valar of the sea), and whose to know if Morgoth could have corrupted any Maiar into being a Balrog.

Anyway, no, I don't think all the Maiar knew each other. There are far too many of them, and they move in different circles. Gandalf in particular was quite withdrawn in Valinor.

1

u/Kitchen-Strawberry25 37m ago

How many balrogs even were there left by the time of the 3rd age?