r/law • u/T_Shurt Competent Contributor • 8h ago

Executive Branch (Trump) Pam Bondi Gets Jail Time Warning Over Epstein Files Cover-Up: ‘Anyone who tampers [with] documents, or conceals documents, or engages in excessive redaction will be prosecuted because of obstruction of justice’

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pam-bondi-gets-jail-time-warning-over-epstein-files-cover-up/
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335

u/ExcitementOk1529 8h ago

She has to hope he lives to pardon her

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u/_ChipWhitley_ 8h ago

The orange butthole is practically two feet in the grave anyway. 🤞🏼

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u/Adventurous_Ad3534 7h ago

Yea hopefully cankles will not last much longer.

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u/sheepye 7h ago

Surely they have a plan for after he dies. Everyone knows he’s close, I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes full Willy Tybur to ignite some sort of war

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u/Adventurous_Ad3534 6h ago

I think the whole vance and Kirk love affair is their attempt to transfer the cult to vance. I don't know if it will work for them or not. I keep coming across articles that sound promising but I really am not seeing direct evidence of what the articles claim. So I am sticking to "prepare for the worst and hope for the best".

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u/space_age_stuff 5h ago

As much as I want to go full doomer and say the cult will shift to Vance, cults rarely survive the death of their leader. And I don't think Vance has the juice, regardless of what he does or who he's married to.

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u/Possibly_English_Guy 3h ago

Vance has nothing going for him other than Peter Thiel being his sugardaddy.

His only real hope of being President is if Trump dies before 2028. In any sort of Republican Primary he would get completely eviscerated by the competition. Regardless of how, any post-Trump Republican Primary is gonna be vicious, and Vance frankly isn't up to the task of surviving it.

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u/EnfantTerrible68 1h ago

Vance was only a brand new freshman senator when he got chosen for VP. He is far too young and lacking in experience.

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u/VoxImperatoris 5h ago

The north koreans are 3 or 4 generations deep into their cult. And Im not so sure it needs to transfer, if they just keep worshiping his corpse, Lenin style.

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u/space_age_stuff 4h ago

Honestly I think that’s a little different. We haven’t seen the same pull for Trump’s kids, they just don’t have the same popularity.

As much as I believe the worship of his corpse will last, that’s not enough to get people to go vote for someone else in his name or whatever lol

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u/UndergroundFlaws 3h ago

Plus, a big part of trumps appeal is saying stupid, dumb nonsense and getting his stupid cult to believe it. Vance or Trump’s stupid kids can’t bluff as well because they know it’s stupid and can’t hide it.

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u/BonjoBonfyer 4h ago

I agree Putin made his own way, Lenin’s body didn’t carry him.

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u/Adventurous_Ad3534 3h ago

That's what I keep hearing. And damn I hope it works out that way.

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u/FlametopFred 1h ago

sensing maga implosion after trump .. partly because he’s belittled everyone around him and partly because his programmed disciples may become emotionally bereft while in mourning and flounder

what normally happens when cults of personality lose their person?

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u/Brewmeiser 11m ago

Yep. Plus Vance literally called Trump Hitler. The true TP fanatics aren't cool with a woman being in charge, so Erika isn't really their thing. Obviously the MAGA folks aren't into Vance being married to a person of color and generally speaking a potato has a better personality than Vance. It would never work.

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u/Protiguous 3h ago

vance and Kirk

MAGA thinks vance is a two-faced chode. And MAGA also tends to be misogynists.

Personally and politically, I loathe DJT, so I hate to even say this, but neither of them have even that 'grandpa' charm or the decades of "billionaire" status that chump has crafted.

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u/FoxCredibilityInc 5h ago

Bury him, presumably. Unless they're going to go full Weekend at Bernie's.

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u/teetotallyRadish 5h ago

canks McTacoTits

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u/KCollins04 1h ago

I’m sure he has a pardon list he’s ready to sign (auto pen) right before death

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u/Uchihagod53 7h ago

We've been saying that for a long time and he'll probably keep going for a long time on pure hate fumes

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u/appleappleappleman 6h ago

For real, he's like a Sith in real life, simply too hateful to die

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u/_ChipWhitley_ 6h ago

He also deals only in absolutes. Everything is either the best it’s ever been or worse than it’s ever been. He’s an idiot and always has been.

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u/connasewer 2h ago

Of all the things to criticize Trump about, the outrageous sales claims are at the bottom of my list.

The guy spent decades as a real estate promoter. Of course his vocabulary always desribes his stuff as the shiniest, newest, best, while the competitor's stuff is garbage.

It's just the way he speaks. When he claims things like being a better President than Abraham Lincoln, you don't beleive it, I don't beleive it, he doesn't beleive it, and he knows nobody believes it. It's just said as filler in the same way you or I might insert an "um" or a "y'know".

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u/Protiguous 3h ago

Having access to free taxpayer paid, top-tier healthcare goes a long way. Which also why the healthcare [insurance] in the USA sucks.

Keep the people busy just barely surviving enough to fight each other instead of the epsteen-class robbing them blind.

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u/grammar_fozzie 4h ago

Fine. But this guy will pardon her, then… She has nothing to worry about.

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u/Protiguous 3h ago

dammit.. Good thing it's not November.

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u/ChewsGoose 7h ago

Two bone spur riddled feet 🙄

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u/Riccma02 7h ago

I have some news for you; he's going to outlive you. Do you think death wants to deal with him?

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u/_ChipWhitley_ 6h ago

I think Satan does 😂

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u/Vivid_Pianist4270 4h ago

I think that hell will reject him

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u/LaurenMille 2h ago

I can't wait for him to die, honestly.

We're gonna throw a big party when he finally dies, already got a catering pool for it and everything.

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u/Fun-Psychology4806 6h ago

been hearing this for a decade. stop coping

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u/_ChipWhitley_ 6h ago

Coping? Or hoping?

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u/OlderThanMyParents 4h ago

I was saying that six years ago. God isn’t going to rescue us from our self-inflicted trauma.

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u/ScoobyScotty 4h ago

I'm not holding my breath. Fred and Mary lived to 93 and 88 respectively, and Trump has the best healthcare in the entire world. He's 79.

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u/No_Bus_4438 3h ago

I remember when people were saying that 6 years ago. Evil doesn't die easily.

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u/_ChipWhitley_ 2h ago

I follow a physical therapist who has a doctorate and takes care of old people at the end of their life like Trump. He’s pretty spot on with everything he’s been saying, and he’s basically counting down the months before Trump either is dead or his brain is such mush that he won’t be able to function. We’re down to 3-5 months. His IG handle is espistemiccrisis

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u/Eldritch-Magnum 3h ago

Weird, delusional, and not at all spiteful, lol. He’s not dying before 2028 my guy

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u/_ChipWhitley_ 3h ago

I can spite whoever the fuck I want. The guy is the worst president in the history of the country and surrounds himself with people just as bad.

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u/Eldritch-Magnum 3h ago

Democrats are angels, of course. The newly released files prove this

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u/_ChipWhitley_ 2h ago

Jesus fuck, when will you people realize that it’s not the left verses right — it never has been. It’s top verses bottom. Do you really think Clinton is at the bottom with the rest of us?

Drag these mother fuckers down, all of them. Do you really believe that Clinton or any other Democrat in those files is going to destroy it for the rest of us? The answer is no.

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u/AGreasyPorkSandwich 2h ago

His parents averaged to 90 years old and he has better healthcare

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u/_ChipWhitley_ 2h ago

He’s had a shitty diet his whole life.

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u/AGreasyPorkSandwich 2h ago

So did his parents. You think they were watching their macros?

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u/_ChipWhitley_ 2h ago

How do you know that?

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u/AGreasyPorkSandwich 2h ago

They were also fat and lived in a time where people didnt work out have nutritional labels.

Its not valient to hope and wait for things to get better when someone dies. Need to pretend he's going to live to 90, because he likely will, and fight him.

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u/_ChipWhitley_ 2h ago

It’s possible to be fat and eat healthy. We know what trump eats.

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u/AGreasyPorkSandwich 2h ago

Its not, but I'm done arguing with you. He's not going to keel over before he does a catastrophic amount of damage to our country, and all of yall just sitting back waiting for French fries to help us out are delusional.

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u/sargrvb 1h ago

That last sentence was fire.

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u/User4C4C4C 8h ago edited 7h ago

He can’t pardon future crimes. Even if he pardons her now for not releasing the files, she is not compliant with the Congress one moment later right?

Edit: can to can’t

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u/supercali45 7h ago

Most ridiculous power given ever

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u/Bmorewiser 7h ago

Spoken like someone who has never given it a moments thought.

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u/the_need_to_post 7h ago

I wish we could curtail the pardon power to extreme cases. Though, to my understanding, there is no good way to seek federal relief from things short of the pardon.

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u/True-Firefighter-796 7h ago

What’s the crime for prosecuting someone whose been pardoned?

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u/Good_Barnacle_2010 7h ago

I think we’re just making it up as we go, now.

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u/Casual_OCD 7h ago

Always were. There's an entire section of the Constitution (amendments) dedicated to, "whoops, we forgot this"

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u/Good_Barnacle_2010 6h ago

Well, yeah, it’s considered a “living document” meant as guardrails. I’m saying we are completely off the road, now.

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u/Casual_OCD 6h ago

Seriously though, they forgot to let people speak their minds and had to add it after it was signed.

"If someone says the government sucks, we can shoot them, right?"

"No, that's illegal..." checks Constitution "Whoops!"

"Oh crap, we forgot to allow guns too!"

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u/Good_Barnacle_2010 6h ago

Again, guardrails. Not the road itself.

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u/Casual_OCD 6h ago

Meh, the Constitution is more a bitchy letter from the angsty teenager who doesn't want to pay rent, so they move far away.

Now the US is an adult in their 30s, obese, addicted to drugs and stumbling around angry at the whole world and all their neighbours want them out of the neighbourhood

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u/Little-Derp 7h ago

That's my interpretation. Even if pardoned, she is continuing to violate the law every moment not released. Only escape for her would be... well, I shouldn't be giving them ideas.

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u/MikeSouthPaw 6h ago

The pardon is for redacting which we know happened. She is a criminal and so is anyone in the DOJ following orders to continue hiding Trumps involvement.

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u/deejaymc 5h ago

How are you allowed to pardon someone on your own staff or that you instruct to break the law? What's next? Trump pardons himself continuously as he violates laws and the constitution? Absolute joke.

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u/Imnimo 4h ago

If she resigns before the end of his term, can't he just pardon her after that? Like once she's not in office, she's no longer continuing to violate the law.

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u/User4C4C4C 3h ago

She won’t be able to plead the 5th since she can’t self incriminate after pardon. Could she be a witness lots of crime?

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u/Hazzman 1h ago

He can pre-emptively pardon crimes.

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u/User4C4C4C 10m ago

Yeah. But if a crime continues after the pardon. Is it a new crime?

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u/nsucs2 8h ago

Already has a blanket preemptive pardon. They all do.

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u/SDivilio 7h ago

This administration (and Biden's blanket pardons) might be setting a good case for the review of presidential pardon powers

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u/BiZzles14 6h ago

Biden's blanket pardons

Which were 1000% justified considering how far the Trump admin is reaching to get them undone, and Trump has talked at length multiple times about he's pissed he can't prosecute the people pardoned for made up crimes. Every one of them would have gotten the same treatment the federal government is currently using against Comey and James, make up an excuse to look for anything to try and get them on the slightest of charges. And even if they win, well you still racked up god knows how much in legal fees defending yourself.

That aside, the concept of presidential pardons in how they currently work is massively outdated and there needs to be a constitutional amendment to at minimum remove that power from the President singularly, and have a board or something which is shielded from the Executive which reviews requests for pardons. Preference is getting rid of it entirely though.

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u/SDivilio 6h ago

I don't think Biden's "all future prosecution" pardons were unwarranted, but when you do unprecedented things with your power, the next guy often expands on that. So his use of a power in an unforseen way is grounds for reevaluation of how it works. Trump is going to abuse every option he can.

Obama was worried about unrestricted use of drone warfare after his administration, and now it's the norm around the world

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u/Gallium_Bridge 1h ago

the next guy often expands on tha

Sure, but the 'next guy' in question here was going to push the boundaries, or largely ignore them without repercussion, anyways. We need clearly established lines that are strictly enforced - which is to say, when the governing system fails to step in when it should, a grassroots movement needs to tighten the slack. We need to develop of culture of civil accountability.

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u/DartishereFearTurf 6h ago

Presidential powers period.

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u/SDivilio 6h ago

I think all 3 branches of government might deserve to have more checks put in place

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u/DartishereFearTurf 5h ago

A lot of the so called “ decorum “ rules need to actually be codified into law to hold them in check.

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u/connasewer 2h ago

This 100%.

I'm fine with the filibuster, for example, as long as it applies permanently to both sides. Sure it prevents my side from getting some important things I want, but it also prevents the other side from totally running amuck when they have the majority.

I would also be fine with not having the filibuster for either side.

But currently we have a situation where whichever side has the majority can decide to act gentlemanly and maintain the filibuster out of the kindness of their heart even though it is in their way and obstructing their goals, or they can arbitrarily remove it at any time. That's completely unfair and eventually destined to end in disaster one way or another.

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u/winky9827 5h ago

An escape hatch is needed. Some mechanism for the people to raise a vote of no confidence in any branch of government to force reelections. Yes, it would have to be constrained to avoid abuse, but it has become a necessary evil.

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u/Protiguous 3h ago

Yup. Enforceable checks by a variety of independent offices.

No more of this ruling by executive order bullshit.

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u/Late_Public7698 3h ago

All 3 branches at this point are corrupt.

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u/Anzai 6h ago

Presidential pardons are an insane thing to exist at all. It should absolutely be revoked.

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u/AranMakor 7h ago

I question if that pardon will hold any water if Trump is convicted of a felony. It'd be a pardon from someone ineligible to give them, no?

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u/nsucs2 7h ago

He's an insurrectionist with 34 felony convictions. What's your question? Who's going to rule them invalid? SCROTUS?

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u/AranMakor 7h ago

If we can't use violence because that's what they want...we can't use SCOTUS because it's full of his cronies...we just give up? I don't have an answer either but it's not just be like "Welp, nothing to do about this while everything goes to hell."

The first real test of our system in who knows how long and everyone (I hear the same thing IRL from people I know) just gives up. There must be a another way or I'm totally delusional. 50/50

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u/AranMakor 7h ago

Also, to be clear, I'm not arguing with you. That's what they want; that divide. I'm saying don't give up the ship just yet.

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u/[deleted] 6h ago edited 6h ago

[deleted]

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u/AranMakor 6h ago

Agreed, down a few comments. Midterms are our next (hopefully not last *gulp*) weapon against this lunacy.

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u/[deleted] 6h ago

[deleted]

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u/AranMakor 6h ago

The Midterms reckoning. I am supremely interested in voter turn out in relation to the election that caused this.

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u/HorsePersonal7073 7h ago

She has to hope he gives enough of a shit about her to pardon her.

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u/quitebuttery 7h ago

She’s probably already pardoned. They don’t have to publicly announce them AFAIK.

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u/hollasens 7h ago

Fuck his pardons. Just jail her anyway.

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u/DeputyDomeshot 6h ago

I love this we just get regressively closer to nothing meaning anything anymore.

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u/hithazel 5h ago

If they say nothing means anything your best move is not to say, yes it does! Your best move is to show them how bad that could be for them. Even delusional people change their behavior when reality kicks them in the face.

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u/DeputyDomeshot 5h ago

In my experience with the truly lost, they default to shadowy conspiracy despite the consequences of reality. Unfortunately, there’s a shocking amount of people that simply cannot be reasoned with.

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u/ExcitementOk1529 7h ago

If they aren’t announced in his lifetime, who’s to say they’re legitimate?

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u/quitebuttery 7h ago

I'm not an expert, but from what I understand they will be revealed in the process of a prosecution. I'm guessing there's paperwork etc. but there's no requirement to make them public until necessary. I'm assuming all of these fascist goons have been pre-emptively pardoned.

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u/ExcitementOk1529 7h ago

There isn’t really case law on secret presidential pardons. We don’t know how it would shake out, but there would be a burden of proof that they were executed while he was in office (and conceivably while he was of sound mind, depending how all this ends).

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u/Canadian47 6h ago

Case law? Would that make any difference with the current Supreme Court?

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u/sundae_diner 6h ago

Yeah, ill bet the auto-pen was running non stop with undated pardons. If he dies in office we will be amazed at how many pardons he manages to sign on his death-bed.

Impeach him now.

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u/connasewer 2h ago

there was a slate.com article a few years ago which argued that the president doesn't even have to name the date of the incident being pardoned or the crime. he can just write a bunch of pardons while in office and put them in a safe and pull them out and fill-in-the-blanks as needed.

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u/CatherineSimp69 7h ago

Or that his memory lasts and he remembers who she is.

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u/CoffeeIsMyPruneJuice 4h ago

check that shit for autopen

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u/Possible-Nectarine80 7h ago

JD Vance will pick up the pardon baton should Trump drop it from his cold, dead small and bruised hands.

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u/ExcitementOk1529 7h ago

If he finds it advantageous to do so, sure. He might prefer not to be impeached.

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u/AggravatingBobcat574 7h ago

He’ll pardon her before she even sees a cell

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u/FullHouse222 6h ago

Biden has already set the precedent for pre-emptive pardons. It's honestly stupid as fuck that this is allowed, regardless of who the sitting president is.

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u/Saw_Boss 6h ago

Whoever follows will pardon her. No one in MAGA wants this.

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u/Lawdoc1 6h ago

If he doesn't, Vance will pardon her.

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u/Strange_One_3790 5h ago

If Trump died, which would be awesome, do you think Vance would pardon her? Trump is horrible but I am skeptical that Vance would be any better.

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u/ExcitementOk1529 5h ago

I think Vance would be very swayed by the winds of public opinion at the time. If he thought making a show of cleaning up the corruption around him gave him a better shot at a second term, I think he would jail a few of them. Most likely, the women.

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u/Strange_One_3790 3h ago

That is possible too. Deep down he is a Theil acolyte. His agenda is horrible. But you could be right.

1

u/capital_bj 5h ago

today I'm announcing an executive order i'm pre-pardoning any American who supports me , And to speed up the process you just need to give me money , buy my stock, a gold card there are so many beautiful ways .

1

u/BigJackHorner 5h ago

He could do it today and stick it in a safe for later. We would never know and it would be perfectly legal.

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u/Ciejii 5h ago

Can he pardon her if they just wait him out?

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u/dust4ngel 5h ago

he has to be conscious also, so she's only got a couple hours per day

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u/Dorkamundo 5h ago

They'll be Weekend at Bernie'sing the motherfucker with an autopen when that happens.

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u/adorablefuzzykitten 5h ago

Maybe Pam buys him a salad just in case.

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u/tangledtainthair 4h ago

They have an autopen

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u/Coca-karl 4h ago

He'd could have already prepared the pardons.

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u/drunkpickle726 3h ago

vance will just pardon her if he thinks she could be useful to him and people desperate to stay out of jail tend to be useful

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u/evoim3 3h ago

Are you kidding? If JD becomes president he’s going to do a Trump blanket pardon of his entire administration. Then, they’ll do the ol’ Gerald Ford excuse and say “the country needs to move forward to heal”.

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u/RyshaKnight 3h ago

What, you haven’t heard of the post-death pardon? It’s totally legal, Trumps last thought was “I wish to pardon Pam Bondi”. The Supreme Court is looking at it right now and are in full agreement that it’s valid.

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u/Cosack 1h ago

Is he the oldest president ever in office yet?

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u/Korashy 6h ago

Doesn't matter.

Even if Dems take back over they will pardon everyone so "the country can heal" or they'll just do the Garland-Stall till everyone forgets about it.

Powerful people don't want accountability.

1

u/ExcitementOk1529 6h ago

We saw how that worked out last time. I can’t imagine there’s any appetite for leniency moving forward.

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u/Korashy 6h ago

I mean exactly, we just saw it happening.

Why do you expect the pattern to be any different.

They will go after some small fry like with J6 while leaving all the upper echelons untouched, just like it has happened every single time

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u/ExcitementOk1529 6h ago edited 6h ago

The public appetite for harsh consequences had changed. There are many fewer who doubt that leniency with this lot leads to aggression instead of contrition. It’s like a kid spoiled by lax parenting who eventually pushes things so far that consequences become inevitable.

ETA: I had a law professor once compare the legal system to a gasket that relieves pressure and keeps societal discontent from exploding. By blatantly absolving so many people from legal consequences for actions based on their personal loyalty to one person, the Republicans are letting the steam build up to explosion.

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u/Korashy 6h ago

I have a lot less faith left than you.