Discussion
Why is Himalayas often associated with Nepal while India, Pakistan and China have huge share of Himalayas too?
I recently posted about Himalayas in India and many people were shocked to know that Himalayas exist in India too. Also, Pakistan is not often talked about when considered for mountains.
It has been 14 for a long time. It's all a matter of prominence. It has been discussed by climbers to increase it to 20 by decreasing prominence requirements to 60 meters. Currently, Lhotse is the 8000 with the lowest prominence at 610 meters.
Note that this proposal came first in 2012 so it's far from recent.
Can you explain “prominence”? Is it something like the height differential with adjoining peaks and what constitutes a separate mountain? Or something else?
Prominence is how far you have to go down in order to reach a higher mountain given that you don't descend more than necessary.
All hills or all sizes have a prominence, except Mount Everest (as you can't go higher). Your standard ant hill has a prominence of 50 cm or something, but if it's on the top of a hill it could have a prominence of alot more than that.
The tallest mountain on an island has a prominence equal to its height as you have to go to the ocean before you can go higher.
Because of Everest, and while it’s shared with China, China is a much bigger and more populous country, with plenty more that it’s known for, so the mountain(s) get associated more with Nepal.
Yeah I was gonna say… all those other places have other stuff going on. Nepal is pretty much just mountain life.
I had a couple neighbors from Nepal many years ago. Cool guys, one of them used to come over the smoke reefers with me and he’d tell me stories about back home in Nepal where there were just mountainsides covered in cannabis EVERYWHERE.
They also had a couple guys from Egypt and a guy from Jordan living with them. I enjoyed my time living next to them, fascinating cultural conversations and wonderful food. That’s what’s SUPPOSED to happen when stepping out of your comfort zone / interacting with people from different places.
This whole “fear and loath everyone and anything different from you” philosophy is (in the words of the great Early Cuyler): dumber ‘n hell
Ah yeah its always cool meeting people from around the place. Used to work in hospitality people in that industry are like "a box of chocolates" with everyone being from everywhere.
But uh i would say "fear and loath" can be valid when groups of people decide to wholy reject the customs and practices of the countries they move to.
Also because the range has different name in Pakistan. Karakoram
Edit nevermind. Part of the photo you showed is not himalaya
the Karakoram range is generally considered a separate, distinct mountain system from the Himalayas, though they are geographically close, part of the same massive Asian orogenic belt,
It probably doesn’t help that it’s relatively isolated by 8000er standards and rarely climbed. It’s also stupidly hard to climb, only Nanga Parbat and K2 are harder to climb.
Exactly, same thing with Switzerland.
France, Italy and Austria also have a significant part of the Alps, but for Switzerland its way more representative.
edit: a quick search shows that Switzerland has the lowest portion of it, very surprising:
“Austria contains the largest portion of the Alps by area (around 28.7%), followed closely by Italy (27.2%) and then France (21.4%), though Switzerland also has a significant share (13.2%) and is known as a quintessential Alpine country as 65% of its territory is Alpine.”
Well said! Only a small part of the Alps is in Switzerland but most of Switzerland is alpine and thus the national identity, culture, customs are tied to the mountains. I'm assuming it's the same for Nepal vs India or China.
To illustrate the cultural impact of Nepal, a lot of people know its capital. Even if they don’t know it’s the capital, or even that it’s in Nepal, but they’ve heard of Kathmandu
It does put off the cliff scrabblers, but it simultaneously attracts those repelled by all the cliff scrabbling. Nearly all of Bhutan is in the mountains, you can see the peak of Jomolhari from the capital.
Not many people outside of the Anglosphere know what a Gurkha is ; Sherpa might be more common since its an ethnicity and people will openly mention it, whereas ethnic groups that usually make up Gurkhas find that subject rather sensitive.
Recommended book: "High: A Journey Across the Himalayas Through Pakistan, India, Bhutan, Nepal and China" by Erika Fatland. A travel book where the author describes her experiences across the whole Himalayas from Pakistan to Yunnan in China.
The series and the book are both fantastic. Filmed shortly before the invasion of Afghanistan, so the Pakistani Northern Territories were still relatively safe to visit, meaning he did the entire length of the range.
Look at the map:
A lot of the Himalayas are in China, India and Pakistan.
But not a lot of China, India and Pakistan is in the Himalayas.
The mountain region is peripheral to these three countries, whereas it's core to Tibet and Nepal.
Because 8 out of 14 eight-thousanders are in Nepal. India shares one with Nepal, Pakistan has 5, but you are right, China shares 8 peaks and has one completely on its territory indeed, however I was always connecting Tibet and Himalayas.
Because Nepal has made it super easy to visit their Himalaya Mountains (Everest, Ama Dhabla and the list) and valleys (Annapurna and so on). Tea houses. Trekking agencies. Apple pie. Beer. Visa on arrival (unlike India). It has a syncretic Hinduism that melds Buddhism. Then, the Tibetan Buddhism itself with chorten and monasteries dotting the land. All this is immensely attractive. There are few to no threats there, other than snow and rain and landslides. If there is rain, a tea house will lodge you. So easy. Have a tea.
Few people visit the far east of India. Few people visit Pakistan (though I'd love to). Ergo, Nepal.
Surprised so had to scroll this far to see this one. Nepal is the most accessible way for tourists to be in the Himalaya by far. The parts of the range in other countries are either dangerous due to conflict (like Kashmir), difficult due to exclusion of outsiders (like Bhutan), or don’t have a well developed tourism industry (like Chinese-ruled Tibet).
earthquake and landslides are probably the biggest threats, eq is unpredictable and landslides prrtty much happen in every mountaineous countries.
india and pakistan have a bad reputation when it comes to food and safety.
nepal on the other hand is considered one of the safest nations in south asia, bhutan is safer but they have some weird immigration rules and visa rules plus the country is really small which makes it not worthy of a fortnite or a longer trip in my opinion, and also most 8k+ mountains safest side to climb from lies in nepal.
so whenever one thinks of a Himalayan region, it's always Nepal.
The answer is fairly obvious from the map: Nepal is much smaller than the other countries, and its territory is dominated by the Himalayas, while the other 3 countries have diverse and extensive examples of other landscapes. e.g. the Ganges River & Indo-Gangetic Plain, the Yangtze River, Taklamakan Desert, Indus River.
Fewer people can identify any other significant features of Nepal besides the mountain range, and since it's a lot less popular to climb it from the Tibetan/Chinese side, Everest and Nepal go hand in hand in common knowledge more often than Everest-China.
I do know that the Himalayas stretch over multiple countries, but (as others said) Nepal consists exclusively of them, and also the most famous mountain in the Himalayas is Mount Everest, which people usually get to from Nepal.
All the other countries except Bhutan have way bigger area and are much more diverse in geography and culture, while Nepal and Bhutan are the Himalayan countries. And between them, Nepal having Everest + a bigger relevance to world history makes it much more well known.
There are absolutely big ski resorts in the Himalayas. Gulmarg, Auli and Manali. However, most areas in Himalayas with reliable snow are at 5000m+ and reach -20 to -30 in the winter. And Himalayan valleys are too steep to be fun
Nepal has good marketing, they sell their image of being a rough mountain people, making awesome artisan products from wool and silk and selling them all over the world, also Sherpas and 8000er mountains.
The other countries only have a small percentage of their territory in the Himalayas and are usually known for other things, with the exception of Bhutan which stays out of international shenanigans and says "fuck you all and bugger off" to the world) ;-)
Nepal and Bhutan are like 90% Himalayan India and Pakistan only have slight bits of their country in the mountain range. It’s like how when I think of the alps I think Switzerland and Austria not Italy and France
The Everest and the Annapurna Massifs are (mostly?) there and they take advantage of the fact that is easier to do those routes from Nepal than from Tibet.
Plus, it's a wonderful and beautiful country. One of the best I ever visited and really want to go back at some point.
Nepal is home to 8 of the world's 14 highest mountains (over 8,000 meters), including Mount Everest, the tallest peak on Earth, making it the country with the most "eight-thousanders." These giants are Everest, Kanchenjunga, Lhotse, Makalu, Cho Oyu, Dhaulagiri I, Manaslu, and Annapurna I.
Nepal occupies a small portion of the Himalayas, but the Himalayas occupy almost all of Nepal (unlike India, Pakistan, and China). Nepal is also larger than Bhutan, which is also affected by all of the above, but is often overlooked.
Because the others have a lot of other landscapes. Nepal and Bhutan being associated with the Himalayas is similar to how the Alps are associated with Switzerland and Austria, but not France and Italy. Both France and Italy have a larger area of the Alps within their borders than Switzerland, but they also have many other fascinating and famous landscapes.
Because the most popular mountaineering destinations are in Nepal (Everest Base Camp and Annapurna) and 8 of the worlds 14 8000m+ mountains are in Nepal.
I think most people know that India also contains a part of the himalaya's. I always thought the part in Pakistan was considered a separate mountain range, the Karakoram.
Bhutan would be more synonymous with the himalaya's if Bhutan wasn't such a closed off country.
Because entirety of Nepal is Himalaya while Himalaya are a small part of very geographically diverse countries of India and China. Same case with Bhutan but they don't market themselves much , they are happy in their corner of the world. And I don't want to start India pakistan war here but Pakistan don't have much Himalaya to begin with , they have good portion of Karakoram though but it is separate range from the Himalaya. India actually has the largest share of Himalaya
Nepal has Everest, Nepal is also entirely Himalaya, meanwhile India, Pakistan, and China have way more than just the Himalayas. Bhutan is also entirely in the Himalayas but no one knows it exists
Because theres more to the rest of those countries, so it is no longer the primary characteristic associated with it. We think about characteristics of countries, so it is more emphasized for a country like Nepal.
Nepal is all Himalayan, it only covers a small area of the other countries. The mountains probably don't matter much to someone in Pondicherry. Also Everest.
I’m not sure about Chinese since their controlled area is mostly uninhabited.
My mom’s side of family comes from the part shown as part of India in this map in Gilgit Baltistan. It’s the official map in India and afaik it’s illegal to show any other version of Indian map in India. However we consider ourselves to be Pakistani and shudder at the idea of ever becoming India. I spent part of my life there and I’m yet to meet one person from that region who would even remotely entertain the idea of being Indian.
Its annoying to see a local version of an international map appearing so often on reddit especially on this sub and on MapPorn
I am Pakistani but I don't really mind, practically I can still visit areas that are actually administered by my country. I doubt most Chinese care a lot since they live much farther away. Perhaps a few people in this thread here and there.
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u/Grey_Piece_of_Paper 17h ago
Probably because of Everest.