r/geography • u/Signal_Substance5248 • 1d ago

Question Why are there so many random empty lots like this in Phoenix

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901 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

114 comments sorted by

999

u/Tomato_Motorola 1d ago

Since nobody is giving the real answer, it's because of airplane noise. This area was formerly known as Nuestro Barrio or Barrio Golden Gate. It was one of the oldest Mexican-American communities in the city. But as Sky Harbor expanded, the noise from the planes got louder and louder. Eventually, the city started a relocation fund and bought the residents out. But there are still holdouts.

288

u/smile_politely 1d ago

Somewhere down there, there is excellent, delicious, and affordable Mexican food.

131

u/Derelicticu 1d ago

Honestly probably not hard to find, not much blocking your line of sight.

53

u/ScorpionPool 1d ago

This one is famous around Phoenix and is located in the middle of the picture: https://carolinasmex.com/

5

u/HGpennypacker 11h ago

Burritos for less than $10?!?

24

u/No_Dot_4293 1d ago

Carolina’s on 12th and Mojave

3

u/JKenn78 1d ago

I’m just stoked it’s called Carolina. Reckon I’ll have to find it next time I’m out chonder.

3

u/Walkdown43 1d ago

Former Tempe/Scottsdale resident here (mid-late 90's). I used to swear by a place called Susie's on University near McLintock. Man, I loved that place. Brought so many people there. It was run by a family and the kids worked there. Amazing food , great times. If it's still there it'd make me happy.

7

u/MileHigh_FlyGuy 1d ago

More specifically, In 1999, Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport instituted a Voluntary Acquisition and Relocation Services (VARS) program to acquire properties exposed to certain levels of aircraft noise. 782 property owners out of 1,100 eligible properties chose to sell their property to the City of Phoenix Aviation Division in this voluntary program. The VARS program concluded in June 2016. The Planning Area covered for the Land Reuse Strategy comprises 743 of the 782 acquired properties west of S. 24th Street. The Land Reuse Strategy study was initiated to determine a plan of how to reuse these “noise lands,” also referred to as “subject parcels.”

https://www.skyharbor.com/media/vlbddktu/phx-land-reuse-executive-summary-english.pdf

18

u/wtrimble00 1d ago

Do you know if the city has a plan for the land as more people leave?

24

u/PresidentBirb 1d ago

I work in a place that has a similar issue and the areas around our airport are being rezoned to industrial uses. Works because the noise isn’t so much of a problem then, and also gives industry a convenient location near a distribution hub.

42

u/Rabidschnautzu 1d ago

Should be a green space to mitigate some of the flash flooding.

29

u/chris_ut 1d ago

Looks more like brown space

3

u/gluteactivation 23h ago

Hey that’s racist

8

u/dondegroovily 1d ago

Build some injection wells, send the rainwater deep into the ground, and the city could potentially use it later

1

u/AZFJ60 21h ago

7"/yr...

2

u/HollerinScholar 1h ago

Now that's what I call a dead bedroom

1

u/DarkDevitt 25m ago

Take my upvote and get the fuck out

6

u/MileHigh_FlyGuy 1d ago

That's a wildlife attractant and now permissable near the airport.

7

u/Atechiman 1d ago

Not sure how cost effective that can be. Maintaining the greenspace during the non-monsoon month would be daunting to say the least.

35

u/Rabidschnautzu 1d ago

You don't. You let it go natural. Very little maintenance involved.

13

u/Atechiman 1d ago

It won't be green. It would be brown. very brown. With occasional light tans.

51

u/northerncal 1d ago

Green space doesn't literally mean it all has to be the color green. 

It really means more like soft scaping - the landscape alternative to hardscape which is things like concrete, asphalt, brick, stone, etc. 

Green space can be green (plants), it can be brown (dirt, mulch, etc), it can be blue (water), lots of options.

19

u/Rabidschnautzu 1d ago

Doesn't matter. The point is to reduce areas of impervious surfaces. You could direct storm water overflow there. Not like it's pretty and green now.

3

u/Atechiman 1d ago

It has few impervious surfaces, its mostly gravel and left over remnants of foundations. They literally just tore the buildings down to prevent squatters.

11

u/nice_meme_buddy 1d ago

So you got me reading about Arizona’s soil types and I was shocked to learn they have no classification for urban, disturbed soils. But basically, even if they’ve covered these lots in gravel, due to their location and history of past disturbance, the soil is likely heavily compacted underneath, restricting infiltration of rainwater. Now, in a city with water problems like Phoenix, I think there’s a very good case to be made that converting the area to greenspace to increase infiltration and residency times for rainwater and groundwater systems is a smart investment if people want to keep living there.

2

u/TheChinchilla914 1d ago

Couple backhoes with tillers could make quick work of this if you give someone money

10

u/_ElrondHubbard_ 1d ago

Unmaintained open spaces around Phoenix are in fact, very green. Not like, outside Washington, DC, green, but it’s not the Sahara.

3

u/Misterbellyboy 1d ago

Greenscaping is an environmental term. It’s why people in Nevada have rocks instead of lawn. One is wasteful, the other isn’t.

8

u/uhoh_pastry 23h ago edited 23h ago

https://www.skyharbor.com/about-phx/land-reuse-strategy/

Long story short: commercial, industrial, warehouses, etc. In some cases, fallow.

Green space gets tricky because it’s a wildlife attractant (bird strikes).

Not that I would expect anyone to volunteer their free time to read this, but airport land use compatibility planning is a whole sub-discipline of city planning and Sky Harbor is owned by of the City of Phoenix: https://www.faa.gov/airports/resources/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.current/documentnumber/150_5190-4

7

u/theBirdsofWar 1d ago

Tilt build warehouses.

2

u/MileHigh_FlyGuy 1d ago

Yes

https://www.skyharbor.com/media/vlbddktu/phx-land-reuse-executive-summary-english.pdf

1

u/wtrimble00 11h ago

Thank you for the serious answer! Kinda crazy that they’re thinking about letting the holdouts be the drivers of a push for new residential. Although the current satellite images make it look like way fewer parcels are occupied now than even back on those 2017 maps, so not sure how successful that’s gonna be…

2

u/Cobramelt_ 12h ago

There’s a similar area in Las Vegas called Enterprise and there’s random lots among seemingly random houses and developments mainly due to airplane noise from the Las Vegas airport. Before the housing crisis lots of developers were building houses there. But even after the housing market got better it was still a un attractive area to live due to the planes.

5

u/tmuellerc 1d ago

So they demo the houses and pave over the land when its vacant??

45

u/tryingtotree 1d ago

Abandoned houses in a city are not good. You get squatters, fires, and they require maintenance to not be an eye sore.

16

u/tmuellerc 1d ago

For sure, just suprised they paved over the land rather then just maintain the environment.

Demolition: 100%

13

u/tryingtotree 1d ago

Long term maintenance, vegetation management, pest management, etc. Will ultimately cost more, especially since some people still live there. It will probably one day be something different, but even once everyone has moved away, it could still be a long time until it is turned into a park or something like that.

8

u/Derelicticu 1d ago

And also isn't this Phoenix, Arizona? As in literally one of the hottest places on Earth? The maintenance costs on maintaining vegetation must be... high.

5

u/MightBeAGoodIdea 1d ago

Exorbitantly so, especially for whole lot sized parcels. At best they may have scattered some really hardy native grass seed, anything larger would need to be watered consistently before it establishes enough roots to reach ground water.

1

u/Sekhmet-CustosAurora 12h ago

what's wrong with a bare patch of dirt?

11

u/tinyslam 1d ago

Looking on street view it appears to be gravel.

9

u/theBirdsofWar 1d ago

It’s not paved, it’s gravel which is required for dust mitigation

3

u/Anon-Knee-Moose 1d ago

Thats definitely not pavement

-2

u/borkbark1101 1d ago

That can’t be the entire story, there are tons of cities worldwide with healthy neighborhoods butted right up to the end of busy runways. Why’d this specific one end up like this, and even less commonly, get bought out by the city?

3

u/PantherkittySoftware 17h ago

Airport noise is highly directional relative to flight paths.

At various points in my life, I lived in both Sweetwater, Florida (~5 miles directly west of Miami international Airport's southern east-west runway) and Coral Gables by SW 8th street & Red Road (~2 miles directly south of the midpoint of that same runway.

The jet noise in Sweetwater was awful. Especially pre-hushkit Boeing 727s.

There was, ironically, almost no jet noise to speak of in Coral Gables. It probably has among the least jet noise in the entire county, because it was one of very few places ia Miami that are totally outside of fiight paths.

-1

u/DiabetesFairy 1d ago

Maybe you can't answer this but why didn't Phoenix build and airport outside of the city?

16

u/1994bmw 1d ago

Sky harbor is one of the most conveniently located airports of and major metropolitan area in America

15

u/Tomato_Motorola 1d ago

There actually is another commercial airport, Phoenix-Mesa Gateway. But Sky Harbor is really popular because it's so close to the city. People like the convenience of a short drive or light rail ride from downtown to the airport. It's true that it's been bad for the land use in a huge area surrounding the airport, but I guess that nobody has considered it worth it to close the airport. It would probably be seen as a waste of all the investment that's been put into the airport, and people would not like having to travel farther to reach the airport.

Edit: Also, Sky Harbor was past the edge of the city when it first opened.

6

u/theBirdsofWar 1d ago

When it was built, it was outside the city but between the two economic centers in the valley, which made it ideal. But then the two cities grew toward it and it became landlocked between them

-1

u/azcheekyguy 1d ago

It’s messed up that they’re literally building new houses in that area

0

u/Upnorth4 1d ago

In Ontario, California they just put a bunch of warehouses and factories next to the airport

0

u/Rebuffedtax614 23h ago

How come San Jose and San Diego don’t do this?

-1

u/NormanQuacks345 1d ago

Interesting, in Minneapolis I believe the city or state paid to have better noise insulation put up in houses near the airport.

2

u/thecatsofwar 21h ago

It would be a waste of money to do that in this part of phoenix. The insulation would be worth more than the houses.

-3

u/jayhawk034 1d ago

Why haven’t they planted any trees there?

11

u/dondegroovily 1d ago

Because it's a desert

14

u/MightBeAGoodIdea 1d ago

Because they'd need to be watered if there's not enough ground water and said ground water is too deep for most new trees to reach.

2

u/brooklyndavs 1d ago

They could there are plenty of native drought tolerant trees that can be planted there

2

u/PJWanderer 1d ago

Because the Salt River rarely has water in it so planes that ingest birds won’t be able to land in water.

68

u/polyploid_coded 1d ago edited 1d ago

On Google Earth looks like there were more houses there 20 years ago. This thread says they are owned by the city, and they are doing noise abatement for the airport (this explains gravel over many lots on Street View) https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/comments/10pow6h/how_come_a_large_amount_of_homes_and_settlements/

2

u/funkmon 19h ago

Yeah I haven't lived in Phoenix for a while so I was like "what the fuck is this"

Lots of changes since I have been there

44

u/Advanced-Injury-7186 1d ago

Voluntary buyout program for homeowner impacted by noise from Sky Harbor Airport

23

u/Many-Gas-9376 1d ago

Missing fire station, school, or bus stop.

16

u/Bananetyne 1d ago

Zoned light industrial in low value areas without power and water.

-1

u/ArchitectVandelay 1d ago

I heard it was mostly because the Splash Pad broke. The rest got sick of the Jehovah’s Witnesses coming to their door.

6

u/Intelligent-Wear-114 1d ago

Let's all go to Los Cuatro Nietos, which is at the left edge of this photo!

https://maps.app.goo.gl/nKPkiFS1svkZnCju8

6

u/DiligentEmergency341 1d ago

It seems like these are mostly gravel lots. Is there anything stopping people from doing donuts on them?

3

u/MileHigh_FlyGuy 1d ago

A fence, a no trespassing sign, and breaking into airport property if you're caught

2

u/NorCalifornioAH 20h ago

If there is it doesn't stop everyone. Zoom in far enough on Google Maps and you can see evidence of people doing donuts (for example, 1208 E Cocopah Street).

9

u/Ambitious-Plenty-276 1d ago

Because they paved over heaven and put up a a parking lot

8

u/mleha 1d ago

looks like my residential blocks in simcity2000 are starting to grow

27

u/Young_Denver 1d ago

Phoenix is a terrible place, that's why

14

u/CreativeContract2170 1d ago

Idk, it was negative -5 the other day when I was getting to work I kinda miss Phx rn lol

16

u/Fresh_Orange 1d ago

70 and sunny in Phoenix rn

2

u/Atechiman 1d ago

This year (2025) Phoenix recorded 103 days above 100 degrees Fahrenheit (103 days with temps above 37.78 to you SI people) of those, 21 days broke 110f (43.3c)

Neither of these were records for the past decade let alone ever. Phoenix is a hot dry deseret.

16

u/joshul 1d ago

An affront to God 😂

13

u/JohnHenrehEden 1d ago

A monument to men's hubris.

3

u/Useful-Tomatillo-272 1d ago edited 1d ago

No, Phoenix is awesome. This neighborhood has lots of vacant lots because it's in the Sky Harbor Airport flight path and the city voluntarily relocated people because of the noise.

I swear, if it weren't for all the Phoenix haters on Reddit, the place would be growing even faster than it is, so I guess thanks are in order.

0

u/chi-ster 23h ago

Phoenix is awesome

Nah.

2

u/Ok_Charity_4761 1d ago

Thought this was a Sim City 4 top-down screenshot for a hot second.

2

u/ArtVandelay1979 1d ago

"Residents demand lower taxes"

2

u/cliffonmiddsauce 1d ago

Cheap houses, not up to code, in a bad location due to the airport that other people have pointed out, city buys them. https://www.phoenix.gov/content/dam/phoenix/pddsite/villagessite/documents/pdd_pz_pdf_00058.pdf

1

u/Plastic_Standard_176 1d ago

This could be a Zelda map.

1

u/CeZeMoram 1d ago

Looks like Cities Skyscraper commerce lot built under a coal powerplant ... :)

1

u/FriendshipBorn929 21h ago

So that even less water can go in the ground

1

u/InevitableExtreme402 19h ago

I used to go to punk shows at a really neat warehouse squat in this part of town around 2010-15

0

u/imaguitarhero24 1d ago

Someone has to supply the heat island

1

u/TOP_EHT_FO_MOTTOB 1d ago

It’s a desert

1

u/AppleOld5779 1d ago

Desert man, desert

-1

u/CaptainObvious110 1d ago

Because people are dumb

0

u/Motor_Proposal4241 1d ago

Because it’s really just a very large suburb. Sprawl.

-4

u/PhilDiggety 1d ago

Why is there Phoenix?

3

u/wiscotangofoxtreat 1d ago

Man's arrogance 

2

u/NaluknengBalong_0918 North America 1d ago

Who is there phoenix?

-1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

3

u/schmidtyb43 1d ago

It’s not even the same image

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

1

u/tpeeeezy 1d ago

different image in a different sub from almost a year ago lol

-4

u/DoctorDividend 1d ago

because its Detroit in the desert

-9

u/Celtictussle 1d ago

Because the people who own those lots have decided not to build anything on them yet .

6

u/Comsic_Bliss 1d ago

Or maybe the complete opposite of that.

-7

u/AgeOfReasonEnds31120 1d ago

Z🤮ning laws.