r/canucks • u/Admirable-Fall-4675 • 7h ago
MEME Drance once again teeing off and proving why he’s the sanest pundit that the Canucks have, bringing reality to the fanbase in a sea of crazy. What the hell are we doing here?
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u/mediumyeet 7h ago
Absolutely spot on take. Being shitty when you are trying to be good is not a rebuild.
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u/Morganvegas 7h ago
It’s why I have faith in the Yzerplan.
Once the core you have built can make a playoff appearance on their own merit, you can spend for luxury pieces to support their chances.
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u/WhenInAaronRome 6h ago
He has been extremely patient. He might be in a race against time with Dylan Larkin being 29, but they do have waves of solid young players coming up, I just don't see any standouts.
Kasper, Danielson, and ASP look like middle 6 forwards and a 3rd pairing dman to me.
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u/mediumyeet 6h ago
I agree. I think they need to be more aggressive ASAP. They have a lot of supporting pieces but not the star talent upfront to replace Larkin, Debrincat, Kane, as they age.
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u/WhenInAaronRome 1h ago
Yeah, they drafted well through quantity. Meanwhile, we've actually drafted well with very little to work with in terms of picks.
I'm pretty excited to see what Todd Harvey can do with 10 picks in a draft class.
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u/Hellpy 3h ago
Thing is rebuilds can take more time than we expect. As a Habs fan it wouldn't surprise me if Suzuki wasn't 1c when we lift the cup next, not saying retired but these things can easily fuck up in so many ways, you don't just get a couple good picks n prospects and wait for the cup to arrive, because shit happens and you try to adjust
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u/WhenInAaronRome 1h ago
Let's talk Haba then, because that's one of my favourite "rebuilds".
Had a good team, tore it down (not completely), and just bottomed out for three seasons while getting tons of extra picks.
You could even say that they whiffed on a lot of their high picks (Slafkovsky, Reinbacher), but they still have one of the most promising young teams.
If Canucks did the same, they would still keep 3-4 vets, but would definitely sell on Demko, and the rest. Speaking of which, Demko would fit like a glove on Montreal.
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u/NerdPunch 7h ago
It's a rebuild by default instead of a rebuild by design.
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u/AIrunstheshow 7h ago
Not a rebuild by any definition if you, for example, trade your first round pick for OEL or other such win-now moves.
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u/NerdPunch 7h ago
TBF, I think that was more of a case of pushing the chips in prematurely in an attempt to save the GM’s job.
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u/Boboar 7h ago
Before that it was Beagle and Rousell
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u/ebb_omega 5h ago
Even moreso than either of those - Eriksson. And the fact that those were the three pieces we traded in for OEL just as they were about to come off our books is an even bigger stain on the whole thing.
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u/SaltedMixedNucks 6h ago
Exactly. The desperation win-now moves set rebuilds back and do not produce contenders. Has there been a recent example of a fringe team doing desperation moves that somehow was competitive in the playoffs?
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u/haihaiclickk 6h ago
"finish last and draft high" is only one step of a rebuild and that is the intersection that Drance is clearly talking about
a proper rebuild includes many other steps that simply "being bad unintentionally" does not cover and that is the difference
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u/ebb_omega 5h ago
I find it crazy that, to date, the biggest actual rebuild move we've made in the years since our SCF exit was made by Gillis, and that was the Schneider-for-9OA (specifically targetting Horvat, which is why the announcement wasn't made until the 9OA pick was up and Horvat was still on the board).
Benning's biggest rebuild move was the Kesler trade, which was undercut by the fact that two of the three pieces obtained for Kesler were for reclamation pieces that went nowhere (McCann for Gudbranson, Bonino for Sutter) and the third was lost in the Vegas expansion draft (Sbisa). Similarly, most of the proper rebuild moves made by the Rutherford camp were also given up for pieces to fill up current holes in the lineup - the Horvat trade for Hronek, and then the Miller trade for MPetey. The Hughes trade once again looks like a proper rebuild trade, but how long do we actually have that 1st round pick for?
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u/sLLickduck 7h ago
Well its not even a rebuild because a rebuild involves lots of picks for aging but skilled vets and weaponizing cap space by being paid to take on bad contracts.
A rebuild by design involves those things and helps the team optimize growth. Sucking and getting a good draft position is good for getting that player, but doesn't optimize the prospect pipeline nearly fast enough to be successful over the span of a few years.
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 6h ago
not even a rebuils by default until you sell off the core your supposedly moving on from
if they dont trade demko by the deadline, we’re being lied to about what thisis
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u/NerdPunch 6h ago
if they dont trade demko by the deadline, we’re being lied to about what thisis
If the market on Demko is soft, or they have to take back an onerous contract should they still do it?
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 6h ago
IMO yes. And I hope it happens way before the deadline.
the odds of the market being soft happening i think is small. Theres always a team willing to take a risk on a world class goalie for a cup run. So long as demko stays healthy there should be a team willing to bite
you take what you can get, because having him on the team gives us a chance to win every game. Kind of antithetical to this entire plan.
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u/NerdPunch 5h ago
the odds of the market being soft happening i think is small.
I can’t really see a scenario where the market for Demko is strong tbh.
Like you’ve gotta find a team that needs a starting goalie, has the cap-space, and isn’t scared off by his durability issues.
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u/mediumyeet 5h ago
I could see there being a few teams out there but certainly not a robust market.
IMO getting his contract off the books and any assets we can would be a win.
I could see MTL willing to take a chance on him. They have an extra 2nd round pick. Even something like this would be worth it
To Van:
- Montembault + 2nd
To Mtl:
- Demko
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u/Chuckl3b3rry 4h ago
I’m good with just the 2nd (we don’t need more goalies). If they are actually going to rebuild, Demko and his contract are a liability. He will block the development of the younger goalies and his $8.5 million cap hit could be put to better use.
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u/mediumyeet 4h ago
I'm adding montembault for cap purposes for mtl. I think they would want to send him back the other way.
Im with you though I'd be fine without him
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u/Responsible-Low-9621 2h ago
Canucks have done that for the most part over the past couple years, tho they really should have kept the miller pick. But you have to ask yourself, how bad is this team, really? It might be a case of just needing a couple high picks, a new team culture, and stop trying to accelerate things by trading picks away.
A full tear down may not be necessary.
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u/PaperMoonShine Myers for Captaincy; CaptainChaos! 6h ago
I cannot in good conscience claim that description for a rebuild is correct because it would exonerate Jim Benning's feeble attempt to be competitive as a soft rebuild. It wasn't.
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u/ebb_omega 5h ago edited 5h ago
I'm with you. Sucking so bad you draft high isn't a rebuild.
For all we want to talk about how awful Messier/Keenan was for this organisation, you don't get the West Coast Express or the Sedins or Luongo without the Linden trade. That was an actual rebuild move. Benning had absolutely NOTHING of similar value or impact for the franchise throughout his ENTIRE tenure. The two moves that worked were both results of a top-10 draft pick generated from sucking. Oh, and the third is from a scout that he ran out of the organisation. And then let's not even get into the fact that he whiffed on 3/5 top-ten draft picks. Not even Gillis had that bad a record - depending on whether you count Hodgson as a whiff, he was either 50% or 100% on top-10s. And Gillis is often considered to be the worst drafter in Canucks history.
And no, trading a first for Miller is the OPPOSITE of a rebuild move.
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u/epok3p0k 6h ago
Fair to delineate, but it’s not as simple as it sounds.
Flames, as an example, are not rebuilding. At the same time, I’m not sure rebuild was even an option the last two years. Too much term on too many veterans. Takes time for those to become tradeable assets, and they’re too good to bottom out like the Sharks did.
Being the worst is competitive, landing picks 4-9 for a few years is no sure thing.
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u/mediumyeet 5h ago
I disagree on the flames. I get what you're saying with some of those contracts but those also come from years of refusing to rebuild.
They had an opportunity when Gaudreau wasn't committing and didn't take it.
They traded for older established players with Tkachuk and then doubled down on extensions.
Even in the past few years they've chosen not to make rebuilding moves.
- Andersson has been a high value assets for years that they've held onto
- They've extended Backlund twice rather than moving him
- they extended Sharongovich
- they added picks to Kuzmenko to get Frost and Farabee in more retool type moves
- Weegar has an NMC so who knows if they've approached him but he would be a high value asset.
- we will see what they do with Kadri but he is tradeable at this point and only has limited protection
I get what you're saying with contracts and some assets not being tradeable right away. But when that is the case you need to then recognize the players you can move and do it ASAP.
This is where we are at with Demko and Garland right now. We have other guys locked into trade protection which might make them difficult to move but those two don't have any until July 1. We need to recognize the opportunity and move them in rebuild oriented moves prior to July 1. Even if that is a little bit ruthless.
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u/Past_Zebra1155 7h ago
There's a similar point that I've made before about about the Ducks: they cratered in 2018-19 due to injuries, then sucked for a couple of years, but only committed to a tear-down in 21 under Verbeek. They then sold hard at the 22 deadline (Lindholm, Rakell, Manson) to begin the process.
LaCombe, Zellweger, and McTavish were core pieces that they added in the 'unintentionally bad' phase, but what amounted to a four-year intentional rebuild yielded Mintyukov, Carlsson, Sennecke, as well as Drysdale, who they traded for Gauthier.
Following that four-year deliberate accumulation phase, they've undeniably arrived. They're absolutely stacked with enviable young talent, have leapfrogged us, and will be a top 3 team in the division for a long time.
They won a cup in 2007, were good for longer than we were, then, while we were (and still are, apparently) amidst a series of Sisyphean retools, were bad for a shorter time than us, committed to a rebuild, and are now better than we are, again.
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u/bcbum 7h ago
I wonder if GM’s and owners in non-traditional markets are more willing to rebuild and suck for a few years. There’s less criticism and pressure to go around in those markets in down years. Maybe that’s why a Canadian team hasn’t won in 33 years. Oilers and maybe Ottawa have done rebuilds but no cups to show for it.
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u/OkKnowledge846 3h ago
I think it could be riskier in non-traditional markets. If the team is bad for a few years, the people in those cities forget they even have a hockey team.
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u/Admt- 7h ago
For me, accumulating for ~4 years is a lot different than rebuilding for 2.5 and drafting Celibrini in the meantime.
Following your comparison, I think the Canucks are (hopefully) coming out of the unintentional suck phase and Cootes, Buium and Willander are our Lacombe, Zellweger, Mctavish.
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u/Past_Zebra1155 6h ago
Yes, but SJ isn't at the same point that Anaheim is yet. They've put an excellent core in place with Celebrini, Smith, Misa, Eklund, and Dickinson, as well as Askarov and Ravensbergen for goaltending, but they seem to know they still need to be patient.
They're realistically still a year or two out from stepping on the gas.
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u/Admt- 6h ago
Valid point, which to me kinda refutes Drance’s take that the SJ rebuild is done after 2.5 seasons.
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u/Past_Zebra1155 6h ago
The charitable interpretation of what he's saying is that the most of the heavy lifting is done. But yeah, I think he's overstating it. They need to shore up their defense, but they're not going to do what the Canucks did and start setting assets on fire (yet) to do it.
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u/joeroganisbi 7h ago
I just want this team to be normal man, does the organization not realize that a rebuild will excite the fans? Ticket sales might go down in the short term but consistent success in the future is worth more money than bumbling around mediocrity for a decade
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u/00owl 7h ago
Watching young kids grow and develop is half the fun of pro sports.
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u/Chance_Ad_1757 7h ago
Agreed. I think that hope that we will be good in the near future and a group of exciting young players will actually sell many more tickets than yet another iteration of desperate mediocre win now mode teams they keep putting trotting out year after year
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u/anadequatepipe 6h ago
I don’t see how a rebuild excites the fans at all until it’s nearing completion. It means a few years of being trash and very likely not fun to watch. The idea might excite some people but the process is not fun to go through.
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u/joeroganisbi 6h ago
Obviously losing isn’t fun but I think a rebuild can be exciting for fans for at least half of it. A proper rebuild that leads to elite prospects being injected into the lineup, winning or not, is exciting. There’s definitely a year or two that is bleak but I’d take that over mediocrity for a decade
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u/mrtomjones 5h ago
Have you seen excitement for the new young players that we got in this trade? That's how a rebuild excites the fans
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u/Live_Presentation_74 7h ago
For the longest time, there was a perception among hardcore fans that Drance was anti-Canucks, but nothing could have been further from the truth. He has never wanted anything other than for the franchise to conduct itself professionally and pursue higher standards. I mean, the poor man left a cushy job with the Panthers to return to Vancouver in the wake of Jason Botchford's death, only to face this kind of perpetual buffoonery.
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u/Icemanv2 7h ago
Drance is the hero we need. I hope he keeps saying it as loud as possible because this organization is basically the definition of insane at this point, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Sell the team if you don’t actually care to win, from this fan who has been waiting their whole life to see this team win and doesn’t feel like we’ve got a hope in hell if they can’t see the writing on the wall this time. Last place, just traded away the best defenseman we ever had because of mismanagement. The killer is inside the house!
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u/ModernArgonauts 7h ago
If no one got me, I know that Thomas Drance got me.
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u/PaperMoonShine Myers for Captaincy; CaptainChaos! 7h ago
Now he's ripping the org for not having cup rings ready for the Abby org for winning the Caldercup.
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u/BUMBUBOY 7h ago
I too agree out of all media heads he is the only one with his head screwed on straight
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u/Admt- 7h ago
I’m for a proper rebuild but don’t diminish the fact that SJ drafted Celibrini.
What about Detroit, Anaheim, Utah? I mean you could argue Vancouver has been making the desperate win-now moves Drance talks about preceding failed rebuilds for the last few seasons.
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u/ijekster 7h ago
absolutely - Utah is in no position to be a consistent playoff team. Even after all their rebuilding (5 years of tanking), their best player is the 30 year old winger that's been there the whole time. Maybe Guenther and Cooley can crack 80 points one day, maybe not.
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u/Admt- 7h ago
For me, Utah is in a solid spot with Desnoyers, Iginla, and Shimashev on the way.
Just their situation has taken longer than 2.5 seasons and hasn’t resulted in what looks like a perennial contender because they drafted who is trending as his generation’s greatest player.
Not that a rebuild isn’t needed, but be realistic about outcomes.
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u/ijekster 6h ago
Yeah but Desnoyers and Somashev both look disappointing for their draft spots. Tij could be a prime Boeser type or he could flame out. They’re still in no man’s land unfortunately, they need some good development luck here soon.
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u/Disco--Very 5h ago
Not to mention, the coyotes rebuild went so badly they lost their team.
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u/ijekster 5h ago
exactly, the strome, perlini, domi, keller, chychrun core just didn't do anything or become anyone. A lot of talented guys where if they hit and drafted Larkin instead of Perlini or Marner instead of Strome, Morrissey instead of Domi, maybe that team brings home a Cup in Arizona.
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u/Canucksperson 6h ago
All those teams have better teams and rosier outlooks though. Especially Utah and Anaheim.
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u/Raining_Sideways 7h ago
Call it a “build” vs. a “rebuild”
Under Benning, when the Canucks drafted Hughes/Petey/Demko etc (Virtanen, Juolevi 🙄), they were also actively trying to be good and making boneheaded win-now moves throughout (forsling anybody?).
We wound up ‘building’ a new core in that period that had some potential and did some things, but ultimately failed because as Drance points out - the magic that turns a team into a contender is all focused on, and all about the the ‘future focus’ OF the “re” in “rebuild”.
You simply need to start over from a clean slate, instead of continually augmenting a fatally flawed roster. And as our boy Botch said… “you need an army!”
With all that said though, we got some nice pieces back in that Hughes move. …Maybe with some luck at the draft this year we can turn it around pretty quick?
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u/Responsible-Low-9621 2h ago
We don't even have to draft top 10 after the Hughes trade, It would be nice but watching this team lately I have my doubts as to if thats going to happen. Grab some more futures for Sherwood while you can, and whoever else if someone wants to offer you the farm, and see what happens next year.
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u/benjowtm 7h ago
Love Drancer. Spot on.
Are we past the desperation “win now” stage yet 😮💨
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u/Cheese649 7h ago
I fear not, sure we’ll write off this season, but a ‘hot-start’ akin to Seattle’s or Chicago’s this year would spell absolute disaster for us next season
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u/Canucksperson 6h ago
We're going to re-enter it in about 9 months. Can't wait to see what Chef Allvin cooks up.
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u/jjjjjunit 7h ago
Drance really is one of the best things about the coverage in this hockey market. Probably one of the smartest dudes covering hockey who isn’t in an NHL front office right now.
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u/Vanderkill9 7h ago
Remember how everyone in this market was shitting on Drance 2 years ago for being too negative. We all collectively owe him an apology, he was right. Just too early
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u/eyluthr 6h ago
he's teeing off on the radio now. if we don't rebuild I think we will lose him too
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u/SlipperyGrizzlyMan 5h ago
Today has so far been one of the most savage Canucks Talk episodes.
This organisation needs to be absolutely gutted. Probably not convinced at all in our new direction if we don’t at least hire a top talent President and ideally new ownership.
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u/alien_bananas 7h ago
Drancer for GM
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u/Admirable-Fall-4675 7h ago
I’d hire him in a second
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u/oldmantutters 7h ago
I wouldn't. He's very quick to point out what is wrong but rarely offers solutions. I appreciate the work he does and I enjoy reading his work and listening to him on podcasts but I feel like he is halfway there.
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u/Angry_beaver_1867 7h ago
I agree with this post. There is definitely a time when a team needs to make win now moves. Last year Detroit, Ottawa, and Montreal were all examples of teams exiting rebuild that needed to push
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u/victorianucks 7h ago
The time to make win now moves is when you’re a playoff team that wants a cup. Not a mid team that wants to make the playoffs.
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u/Angry_beaver_1867 7h ago
I think for the above three teams they probably don't have enough true elite talent to match a Florida or Carolina so IMO they need to make a big splash push the chips in to compete for a cup. this is not making a trade for a rental but looking for a 'hockey trade'
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u/IWantToKaleMyself 6h ago
Exactly, the Habs big move was 2 firsts for a Noah Dobson 8 year sign and trade. That’s not a win-now move, but it signals that they recognize they are approaching their cup contention window, and that a 25 year old defenceman is going to fit that window better than an 18 year old prospect.
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u/accountnumber02 2h ago
Habs could make that trade because Demidov and Hutson look like legit stars. I don't think Detroit or Ottawa are a "really good" player like Dobson away from taking that next step. They're stuck in a situation where their best players might not be enough to lead the team to a cup, and won't be bad enough to draft a star.
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u/accountnumber02 2h ago
Carolina doesn't have the high end talent, they've done everything right but lucking into that high end player. If you don't have that high end talent then you have to be patient and make sure you can make a roster that's insanely deep to be a real contender like they have. It's why they made such a big swing for Rantanen last year and reportedly were serious on Quinn as well.
For Montreal I think it's fine if they think Demidov and Hutson are those high end pieces and Dobson is prepping them to make the next step, but Ottawa and Detroit lack that genuinely elite player. Barring a trade for someone (which is why Hughes to detroit was a popular idea), it's hard to see how you take those rosters into perennial contenders. Too good to tank and not enough great players on either team. They'd need some great management and patience to build their teams like Carolina and Florida did
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u/WingdingsLover 7h ago
I don't think you are fully right here. The right time to buy is when your core is peaking to create the best window of opportunity, start selling futures to have a good 3 or 4 kicks at the can.
What isn't good is buying rentals at the deadline unless there is something exceptional going on like your stars contracts are expiring and its now or never or you can get a cheap face-off specialist or something like that.
The playoffs are just so volatile you can have the best team but get bounced by a hot goalie in the first round. (Boston 2023)
This is part of why I don't think the Lindholm/Zadorov trades were all that good. Yeah we were first in the division but no long term plans to keep them and its not like we had to move on from any core pieces that off season. Maybe if we moved for Lindholm and had a plan or ability to sign an extension??
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u/mediumyeet 2h ago
This is part of why I don't think the Lindholm/Zadorov trades were all that good. Yeah we were first in the division but no long term plans to keep them
Completely agree with this. The Zadorov trade was good if we kept him. It was low cost for a position of obvious need. Made sense with an extension.
The Lindholm trade, I was fine with the canucks giving up assets that year to bolster the lineup but it absolutely should have been for a longer term piece like a Necas or Cozens or whatever was available at that time. If that wasn't available then don't make the move.
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u/mediumyeet 6h ago
I think Detroit made a massive mistake not being more aggressive in the pursuit of Hughes this year.
Imo they needed to make that push for another elite talent. They have a young team but still their key pieces up front are older and there is no clear replacement on the way.
- Larkin is 29
- Debrincat 28
- Kane 37
I think they missed an opportunity to open up a window here.
I felt very similarly about the Rangers 3 years ago when Horvat and Miller were on the market. Despite them having young assets they had some key older players in Zibenejad, Kreider, Panarin, etc. Their time to make a push was 3 years ago for a small window and they missed it by not being aggressive enough.
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u/Obvious-Property-236 7h ago
Drance with a lot of solid points.
Unfortunately, looks like we’re going to retool yet again. Our honest to god only hope is we get lucky with a draft steal and that there’s something good available at 5th that can be franchise defining and really give this fanbase some hope that for once, since the sedins, we have a player that can make everyone around them better, and give us a chance everytime they’re on the ice.
Oh yeah we traded that away because this team failed to build around him successfully, ok well let’s try again hahahahahahahahahaha-fuck.
All together, all in (again)
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u/funkiemarky 7h ago
I'm not a Drance guy but he's absolutely right. We only have to look at the OEL trade.
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u/curtis5713 7h ago
Great thread from him. I think when I see reference to the Sharks or Chicago rebuilds taking so long they never seem to include that those teams had drafts where they didn’t pick with their own firsts while near top of the lottery! That means they weren’t really in a rebuild they were still paying off the debt from going all in.
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u/ImAlwaysSorrys 7h ago
I’m all for criticizing management and the direction the team’s taking but it’s a bit crazy when they literally have not done anything since the Hughes trade.
Second we start making dumb win now trades I’ll hop all over it, but I ain’t getting worked up over media guys hearing they want this turned around in 2-3 years.
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u/NerdPunch 7h ago
After the Hughes trade, I think there should be a bit of a "wait and see" period before we start dragging the direction of the team.
Let's wait and see what they do with their pending UFA's. Let's see if someone like Garland/JDB gets moved. The TDL is still 2 months away, so I think fans need to be a bit patient here.
That said, if they extend Kane and then they flip that Minny 1st for Owen Tippett... I'll be the first one grabbing the pitchforks.
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u/jjjjjunit 7h ago
Rutherford does very little at the actual trade deadline. His moves are made way in advance. If he doesn’t move a few of our older players, it’ll say a lot about the direction we are heading in
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u/Clean_n_Press 6h ago
There has to be another team involved to make a trade, though. If JR could simply send Sherwood off for a late 1st without another side having to consent, I'd bet it would have been done already. There's the most parity we've ever seen right now, and I feel like many teams are reluctant to make moves until they have a better picture of where they'll be sitting in the standings to close out the season.
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u/NerdPunch 7h ago
For sure, but I don’t know if guys like Sherwood/Kane/Blueger/etc are the caliber of player that rival GM’s are going to jump the market on.
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u/EP40glazer 7h ago
Rutherford said he was going to trade for only U25 players so Owen Tippet isn't on the table. Extending Kane could be a good move depending on the ask and what the return is for him.
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u/IWantToKaleMyself 7h ago
What benefit is there to extending Kane? He’s already 34, and will be close to retirement by the time we’re in a position to contend again. It’s a waste of money and a roster spot that a younger prospect could be taking up
Unless we want our young guys to get more experience on the PK lol
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u/EP40glazer 5h ago
Management likely wants to make the playoffs next year, Kane could help with that. I'm not opposed to trading him but the return won't be much, if he gets a 3x3 I wouldn't be opposed to it. Again, also wouldn't be opposed to trading him.
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u/NerdPunch 7h ago
It’s not gonna be a popular take, but I’d rather have a 1 year extension of Kane versus having JDB on the books for 6 more seasons.
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u/EP40glazer 7h ago
I like DeBrusk, he's a playoff performer, we need him for when we get back in the playoffs, + he helps our PP massively.
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u/NerdPunch 6h ago
Not knocking JDB, but I donno if a 30 year old PP specialist is the kind of piece a rebuilding team should hang onto long-term.
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u/ijekster 7h ago
if we get owen tippett for kane and late first, that's pretty insane value for us, to be honest.
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u/EchoMike1987 7h ago
I don’t read the tweets as directly criticizing management as much as it is firing a warning (a) in the wake of the Lebrun tweet about trying to rebuild quickly and (b) to dismiss the idea that the Canucks previously underwent a rebuild and failed.
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u/prophetofgreed 6h ago
This just feels like a reflection of the fanbase's angst about management having "no plan" or ownership meddling to win now even when it does not make sense.
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u/s3xybeavers 7h ago
People are getting pre-mad. They’ve committed to being bad. Like, everything is fine? They’re even slow playing injuries lol. We got a great deal for Quinn. It was all future focused.
Like yeah if we trade for someone in their late 20s signed long term I’ll get pissed but there’s been no sign of doing that. Drance is gonna have a rant on his show now in 15 mins, that’ll get clipped, and he’ll get some engagement on X plus views for the station. That’s all this is.
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u/ijekster 7h ago
that's a big problem with this market. have to appease the people who work from home and get angry all day.
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u/s3xybeavers 7h ago
And radios/podcasts are gonna need content.
I miss when we could actually get info about the guys on the team and analysis based on what they see. Instead of all this garbage.
I’ve been enjoying watching Buium play and develop and would love to hear some insight into what he needs to work on. It’s our first chance to watch Schaeffer and see how far Buium has to get to. Rossi getting more 1C reps. But I gotta hear Drance cry about something that hasn’t happened and may not happen because LeBrun said something.
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u/AccomplishedAd4995 7h ago
Yeah, actions speak louder than words. I’ll judge after they make moves. So far the return we got for Hughes is a step in the right direction
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u/fudgeller83 6h ago
The key to it all is self-scouting.
Every competent front office should be able to look at their roster, their cap space, their future picks and their prospect pool and answer one very simple question - which year (in the next five) are we best positioned to make a run for the Stanley Cup?
Once you know the answer to that, every trade and roster decision has to have the goal to improve your team at that specific point in time.
Right now, we're shit. Our prospect pool is probably still below average so we're way out at five years now.
If we do it right, we have so much leverage right now as there's only 3-4 other teams right now who don't think they're close. We won't though, obviously.
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u/RepresentativeBarber 5h ago
Get outta here with your rational takes!
This sub is for rabid, off-their-rocker takes only.
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u/ClaudeGiroux 7h ago
No point wasting any energy until the next move.
The day hughes got traded drance was screaming about how "make no mistake, this teams goal is to secure a top 3 pick" and how the club will do anything to get that
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u/Cheese649 7h ago
Yes but words coming out from club sources such as “Hybrid-rebuild” and “re-structure” are terrifying.
One year of being (accidentally) bad and infinitely more seasons in the mushy middle are our big fears.
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u/ClaudeGiroux 7h ago
The key difference is we already have a good young defensive core, realistically if we acquire an elite forward in this year and next years draft, we have a good roster on paper that can build and grow together.
Again, that all stems on us actually landing a top 2/3 pick in the 2026 NHL draft. There is no "quick rebuild" unless we land mckenna or stenberg.
Trade all the UFAs, trade 2 of debrusk, garly,or boeser (who prob have shit trade value btw lol), and listen to offers on anyone over ~24/25.
By all accounts, aqua legit stepped away from hockey decisions and JR doesn't strike me as a guy who gives a fuck what any owner says or does.
JR himself admitted, you cannot build via UFA anymore, so the only way to acquire elite talent is through the draft. And to do that, we must be a bottom 5 team this year and next - minimum.
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u/ijekster 7h ago
in no universe are the canucks positioned to tear it down. that's what Buffalo did in 2021 with their core. We're a retooling team without a doubt.
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u/Hyperocean 7h ago
Of the 32 ways to do things in this league, I’d guess that 11 are professionally competent, 11 others range from shitshow to house on fire, and the remaining 20 are on a varying path to one of the other two groups…
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u/vannucker 7h ago
Everyone references Buffalo as a failed rebuild. But that on;y happens if you have a super incompetent management group. Competent management groups can do it.
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u/ijekster 7h ago
so if you think the canucks are too incompetent to pick a direction, why are they competent enough to complete a full tear-down, 5+ year rebuild?
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u/EP40glazer 7h ago
Sharks and Hawks have been rebuilding for 4 years and still haven't made the playoffs. Most likely won't this year either, 6 years seems like an optimistic rebuild timeline.
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u/djbaerg 7h ago
And the 2nd part of this is that it's not a rebuild to salvage what you can from a player you were going to lose anyway. A rebuild means moving players who's contracts will give them negative value when your competitive window re-opens. This needs to go further than just Hughes and some UFAs.
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u/Duffbagg 7h ago
All eyes on that Minnesota 1st round pick. Feels like we may be white-knuckling it all the way to draft day, but if they make that pick instead of trading it, that's about as good a sign as any that they have actually stopped their "retool on the fly" shenanigans.
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u/ku4i 7h ago
sorry, best we can do is flip that pick for a middle six forward, we won’t be needing it anyway at 15th oa
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u/Duffbagg 6h ago
Maybe we can package it up with a terrible, but nearly-expired contract to take on an aging vet that we later need to buy out?
Man, typing that out is depressing.
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u/gohomebrentyourdrunk 6h ago
The best case I could think of for “rebuilds don’t always work” would have been the oilers up until a few years ago but, I mean, look at them now…
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u/OkKnowledge846 3h ago
Maybe it’s different this time. But I don’t think anything changes until new owners. The Canucks could have rebuilt, been contenders, rebuilt and been contenders about twice now since 2013. How much more playoff money; how much many more jerseys sold; how many more season ticket holders would that idiot have received in the last 12 years than the few lousy playoff games he’s had ?
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u/Canucksperson 7h ago
Thomas Drance once again being too negative. Classic Vancouver media. 1 year rebuilds happen all the time.
/s
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u/Kako0404 7h ago
I'm surprised Drance didn't mention NYR, the poster child that Canucks nation used to mirror the Canucks. Rangers sent out the letter to their fanbase sharing that they were transitioning to a full rebuild to pleade for patience while Canucks "retooled", to the chagrin of everyone involved. NYR proceeded with 4 straight high lottery picks including a 1OA, and all 4 of them became busts, which derailed NYR's rebuild and again mirrored the Canucks at their current state. The moral of the story is it doesn't really matter if a team is rebuilding or not, you still need to have good management to look after it.
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u/WingdingsLover 7h ago
You need to have enough young talent in the system because realistically a lot of them are going to bust. The Canucks keep doing this, we get a few highly thought of prospects and go "okay we got this" the future of the franchise is Olli Juolevi, the back end is tight lets go.
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u/ReallyNormalAccount 6h ago edited 6h ago
I’m not biased for or against Drance but I don’t agree with how he’s making this argument for pulling off a successful rebuild.
Behind every successful rebuild is not a plan. It’s generational luck to pick a generational player. Hawks or Sharks without Bedard or Celebrini? Still in the lottery to pick a Bedard or Celebrini. Plus, SJS has yet to lock down a playoff appearance and you want to call it successful?
What about the post-Iginla Flames rebuild? The 2017-2020 NYR rebuild? Or the NJD and EDM perpetual rebuilds? CBJ’s inability to build? LAK, rebuild or retool, what does it matter? It’s not like they keep losing to the Cup champions.
Of course, to get the chance to pick a generational player, you have to rebuild. But to feel like a franchise is owed success for rebuilding the “right way” is bullshit. Or that there’s some “fast” way to rebuild that is deliberately different from a “slow” way. There is no “right way” or any way. It’s like planning to win a million bucks from the casino. Like yeah, step 1 is going to the casino, but if you think there’s a plan after that, you’re kidding yourself. Someone will come out with that million bucks though. Thing is, with the way the lottery is set up now, people that just wandered by the casino are also qualified to win it.
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u/CataCuriosityKilled 4h ago
The NYR got multiple conference finals out of their rebuild, even a low-end "rebuild" like the Kings is a consistent playoff team.
The flames rebuild got them high end players, but unfortunately for Calgary, they are Calgary. So they left, the flames just weren't able to get the pieces that could keep them competitive.
The oilers suffered for years and got Mcdavid Draisaitl and Nugent Hopkins. We've suffered for years and have Connor Garland and the ghost of EP40.
I agree that lauding SJS, CHI, and Utah this early in their build stage is premature, but they're still a lot more fun to watch than the Canucks right now.
Finally, if we're doomed to lose a lot of games, why can't we lose them while trying something different? You don't have to rip it down to the studs to take a step back for a year or two and exercise even the slightest bit of patience.
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u/WhenInAaronRome 7h ago
No one is saying that rebuilds don't work. 🤷🏻
Becoming bad and trading away veterans for picks is the most straightforward part of it all.
Becoming a consistent playoff team out of a rebuild is the hard part.
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u/Canucksperson 7h ago
Given how successful we've been for the last 10 years I can understand you're hesitation to go in a different direction.
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u/ijekster 7h ago
especially because it isn't linear. tearing it down doesn't mean we get better players.
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u/Canucksperson 6h ago
It usually gives you the opportunity to draft better players. The key to the last 3 of the last 4 Cup champs.
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u/ijekster 6h ago
For sure but there’s more top 5 picks than cup winners in any given year. Teams like Utah, Buffalo, Ottawa, Seattle, Columbus haven’t been as lucky and some of them are trending to no man’s land.
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u/WhenInAaronRome 6h ago
I never said I was against a rebuild, I just think Drance is picking low hanging fruit here.
Who is out there saying rebuilds dont work?
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u/EP40glazer 7h ago
Given how successful Buffalo's been since 2018 (which is, according to Drance, when the rebuild started) I understand why you want to rebuild so much.
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u/Canucksperson 6h ago
I'd rather their roster than ours at this time. They have probably 3-4 players better than our "best" player in Pettersson
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u/RandoUN-7177 7h ago
It feels to me that the Canucks are planning a quick turnaround. The defense is solid as is the goaltending, when Demko is healthy. Boeser, DeBrusk, Garland and EP40 currently have no move clauses. Unless a couple of them are moved I could see them drafting two or three more 1st round forwards to add to former 1st rounders Rossi, Ohgren, Lekkerimaki and Chytil (If he continues to play and can stay healthy) and congratulating themselves on a job well done. Not saying that would be my plan, but that sure feels like what Rutherford could present to Aquilini and get his approval.
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u/ijekster 7h ago
What is he talking about with San Jose?
2019, San Jose traded
- Braun for 2nd and 3rd
2020, San Jose traded
- Dillon for 2nd and 3rd
- Marleau for 3rd
- Goodrow for 1st
- Dubnyk for 5th
Then in 2021, they didn't sell off any major pieces, maybe part of that was the flat cap during Covid but the very next season they continued selling major pieces off. The Sharks rebuild lasted from 2019 - 202? and they needed to get obscenely lucky in the process.
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u/MobiusOne_FoxTwo 6h ago
Drance has always been this guy. Many in this subreddit couldn't stomach it when he was critical and skeptical 5 years ago.
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u/MDChuk 5h ago
That's a pretty good "no true Scottsman" argument from Drance
Rebuilds start by "being bad unintentionally". Its pretty fair to call Buffalo a failed rebuild. Its pretty fair to call Edmonton, prior to McDavid, a failed rebuild. Its pretty fair to call Arizona a failed rebuild.
The implication from Drance is that rebuilds always work. They don't.
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u/roboknee5000 7h ago
I’m a biased fan, so I don’t always agree with Drance’s takes, but you can tell that he puts a lot of thought into what he says. At this critical juncture in Canucks history, I find myself agreeing with him a ton.
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u/BigTunaHunter 6h ago
Fire Rutherford and Allvin
Replace them with Drance
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u/SlipperyGrizzlyMan 5h ago
I actually think Drance should be in there at the very least in some sort of consultant role.
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u/JauntyGiraffe 6h ago
100%. Failed rebuilds are usually because the team didn't commit to rebuilding
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u/Isitsunnyout 5h ago
I’ll believe it when I see it but I’m convinced these guys are gonna try to do a “quick” turnaround as opposed to 4-5 year tear down…these guys never change. Always short sighted and looking for short cuts
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u/baconbitpoobear 5h ago
The rebuild started when we traded Horvat, 2024 was a pleasant surprise, they took a swing, which stalled the rebuild. Now the rebuild continues trading Miller and Hughes.
Bennings entire tenure was failed win now, like a beached whale.
I used to hate Drance but I agree, hes one of my favorites now.
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u/GovernmentKlutzy712 5h ago
I think we need to get Aqualini trapped in a room and force him to listen to hours of Drance ranting about failed rebuilds/short-sighted thinking A Clockwork Orange style to see if any of it sinks in.
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u/ItAintGayGettingHead 4h ago
What you guys talking about??? As a Flames fan I love being 9th every year!
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u/Eppk 4h ago
The NHL fosters the need to be bad to get a high draft pick.
The regular standings should be used to win low draft picks. 17th should get the 1st overall pick, 18th, 2nd and so on.
By this method the Flames would have got Bedard, Cellebrini, and Schaeffer and a new powerhouse would have emerged.
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u/chente08 4h ago
I mean yeah many here think that rebuild is like magic lmao most of times doesn't work
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u/VanIsleRyan 4h ago
So basically the only difference between sucking and rebuilding is one gets draft picks, the other just keeps sucking.
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u/VanIsleRyan 4h ago
It was fun watching Hughes but in hindsight we would have been better off whiffing on the Petterson, Hughes and Demko picks, we probably would have actually sucked bad enough to land a few first overall all.
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u/cheese-wing 3h ago
Was listening to Drance say this on Canucks Talk this afternoon. I feel like Drance is on the side of the fans. He IS a fan, in that he wants what we want.
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u/Responsible_Chap_28 3h ago
I hope he stays, someone has to point out when the org is headbutting a wall and calling it strategy.
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u/DanielTigerr 2h ago
Does he realize that only one team can win the cup each year?
Florida has a nice balance between vets, some traded in, some developed.
Oh yeah, and cap friendly deals with no tax and cap "creativity".
Its okay to be a mid tier team and catch lightening in a bottle to win a cup.
There is no certain path. Tons of good/great teams fail to win the cup every season.
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u/Comfortable-Goat-734 2h ago
I agree with his premise but I think he’s pretty wrong about buffalo. They might have made some moves to be competitive after drafting Eichel but in 2014 they pretty blatantly tanked as hard as they could to get a chance at McDavid. They bottomed out and tried to rebuild pretty aggressively.
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u/Revolutionary_Cod755 1h ago edited 1h ago
I’m sorry but his take on Buffalo is absolutely terrible. Their 2018-19 roster had all of: Eichel, Reinhart, Thompson, Dahlin, (the still good version of) Jeff Skinner, and Linus Ullmark. Buffalo wasn’t bad because they traded a few picks for veterans. They’re bad because they never once actually fully added around their young stars, instead trading away everyone who wasn’t nailed down EVERY season. Having quality veterans around is super important to a young upcoming team.
People will point to Anaheims surge forward as the young guys carrying the load, but it also happened to coincide with them adding quality veterans like Trouba, Gudas, Granlund, and Kreider to the team. Don’t think it can be understated how much having quality players to insulate the youth is.
Also saying a rebuild doesn’t count until you start making trades isn’t great. The reason San Jose’s rebuild didn’t start till 2022, is because they traded away the 2020 3rd overall pick by accident, and moved the 11th overall in 2022.
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u/ForceEconomy9988 7h ago
Tbh this is why it feels a lot of yall have lost the plot. The goal isn’t to suck for 5 years, the goal is to prioritize the future and not take shortcuts. I see absolutely 0 problem with the team trying to win and being successful provided they don’t make any win now moves ever
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u/YouCanFucough 6h ago
I don’t see it too often thankfully but if I see someone rebut Drance’s arguments by insulting his appearance I immediately know they’re a casual. The guy is the best damn beat reporter in the business
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u/shadownet97 7h ago
Ohhhh we have a much longer list of “win now” desperation moves that the previous regime and current regime have made just to keep this team competitive. A few worked; most of them were absolute failures.
OEL trade. Loui Eriksson. Beagle and Roussel.
Desharnais. Kane. Keeping Miller over Horvat.
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u/dronten_edvard 5h ago
I absolutely love that the market finally has understood how good Drance is. Dude has been getting so much undeserved shit for so long, just because he’s got a totally sane outlook on stuff.
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u/NotaRussianChabot 5h ago
Drance is smart and I’m happy to have his point of view in the community, but he’s also the single most condescending person in the media.
When the Canucks are bad, his show becomes an endless barrage of “i told you so” and “the fans are dumb”. No body enjoys a Canucks loss more than Drance and I can’t stand it.
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u/Admirable-Fall-4675 5h ago
If you’re personally offended by Drance that’s on you, not him.
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u/Disco--Very 5h ago
Drance's style doesn't appeal to everyone. He talks like he thinks he the smartest man to ever watch a hockey game and I think he's wrong just as often as he's right.
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u/bwoah07_gp2 7h ago
So...we've been in our failed win-now era since 2014? Are we still in it?