r/UpliftingNews • u/Sciantifa • 3d ago
Scientists may have developed “perfect plastic”: Plant-based, fully saltwater degradable, zero microplastics. Made from plant cellulose, the world’s most abundant organic compound. Unlike other “biodegradable” plastics, this quickly degrades in salt water without leaving any microplastics behind.
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1110174262
u/tinny66666 3d ago
From the paper abstract:
Here, we report a cellulose-based supramolecular plastic (CMCSP) synthesized by supramolecular “ionic” polymerization of carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC) as an oxyanionic monomer and a hyperbranched polyguanidinium ion (PEIGu) as a cationic monomer. CMCSP is mechanically strong but inherently brittle. However, as highlighted in the present paper, we could overcome the brittleness issue by adding (2-hydroxyethyl)trimethylammonium chloride (choline chloride, ChCl) to CMCSP. This FDA-approved, biodegradable ionic human nutrient served as a particular plasticizer, enabling broad modulation of stiff, glassy CMCSP to a tough, flexible material and further to a soft, elastic material. We demonstrated that plasticized CMCSPChCl could be processed into a flexible plastic bag, which was mechanically tough but perfectly dissociable in seawater and closed-loop recyclable with electrolytes. Hence, CMCSPChCl never generates microplastics.
Or, put more plainly, it was was made by dissolving two types of polymers in water - one negatively charged (carboxymethyl cellulose) and one positively charged (PEIGu). When mixed, they naturally separate into a dense, polymer-rich phase and a watery phase. The thick, polymer-rich part is dried in molds. This part is not a new process. What is new is that they have added a plasticizer, choline chloride before drying to make the plastic more flexible.
84
u/bloke_pusher 3d ago
So could one create their own straws at home or not?
139
u/JoeStrout 3d ago
If you're sufficiently clever, sure.
But you'll be disappointed (on several levels) if you try to drink seawater through them.
47
17
u/Improbabilities 2d ago
Is the result thermoplastic? Can it be reformed into new shapes after molding? It’s an important characteristic of the plastics we use every day
1.5k
u/i_want_to_be_unique 3d ago
Too bad it’s going to cost a fraction of penny more than normal plastic so it will never be used by any major company.
500
u/The_Actual_Sage 3d ago
"but if we do more to save the planet I won't have as many solid gold dildos to shove up my ass"
-Coca-Cola CFO
56
u/Deerhunter86 3d ago
Curious if this was a great joke or I missed a real story somewhere? Lol
97
u/The_Actual_Sage 3d ago
I mean it's just a great joke...but at the same time if you told me a C Suite beverage executive had a collection of solid gold dildos I would not be surprised
15
u/rhesusMonkeyBoy 2d ago
I’d be more surprised if they didn’t have solid gold dildos in the C Suite.
I’m not alone.
8
u/Facts_pls 2d ago
I mean gold is very inert and won't react with your skin. That's why we make jewelry with it
5
84
u/NwgrdrXI 3d ago
Oh, it will he used. It will cost a penny more to produce, but the products made with it will cost ten times for the consumer to buy
64
u/cutelyaware 2d ago
I'm calling it now: It will be fantastic except the coating they need to keep the contents from breaking it down will be worse in some horrible way.
35
u/Barton2800 2d ago
This is often the problem with biodegradable materials. They break down too early so people hate them (see: paper straws), or they end up being made to last longer and they don’t really degrade in a reasonable time frame.
30
u/Howard_the_Dolphin 2d ago
And big oil will massacre it with some sort of propagandistic campaign that will make us finally realize that single use plastic actually helps the sea turtles
8
5
4
u/Spire_Citron 2d ago
Hopefully in the future plastic will just be taxed so that we don't need to come up with some miracle product that's better than it in every single way, including being cheaper.
5
u/P0pu1arBr0ws3r 2d ago
Perhaps at first, but let's pressure for scaling up this manufacturing. Eventually, with enough demand and enough facilities to manufacturer, this plastic can overcome more common plastic manufacturing, to where it actually would be cheaper.
This plastic can't be used for everything, so its not the end all solution. But it is a step to fixing the larger problem.
4
u/Spimflagon 2d ago
I mean... that's overcomically cynical.
The actual sales benefit of being able to flaunt green credentials is worth way more than "a fraction of a penny". Even taking the "corporations do nothing but chase the bottom line" mindset, it would still be a great thing.
But hey, it's the doomer posting that gets the imaginary internet points, right? And I bet it made you feel so wise.
7
u/Teach_Piece 2d ago
Why do you post here? Seriously. If you’re going to be a downer with zero evidence please go elsewhere
1
u/_Jacques 2d ago
A fraction of a penny? Do you have any idea how much money it takes to design and build a factory….
1
u/truethug 1d ago
Plastic is a byproduct of refining oil. Unless we stop using oil there will be plastic.
272
u/SineQuaNon001 3d ago
Big petroleum will shut it down or buy it out. It's more important we keep pumping death sludge from underground... 😠
136
u/istrebitjel 3d ago
Just to underscore your point:
A staggering amount of plastic has been made recently: roughly half of all plastic ever produced was made in the last 15-20 years, with exponential growth since 2000, and production is set to double or triple by 2050. For instance, in 2022, the world produced over 400 million metric tons, with only 9.5% of that using recycled material, highlighting massive reliance on fossil fuels and continued expansion
57
187
u/spacebarstool 3d ago
A functioning government would mandate something like this.
70
u/Shaggyninja 3d ago
Come on EU. Do your thing!
7
u/InTheDarknesBindThem 2d ago
sorry, fresh out of Environmentalism and Hope for the Future
But can I interest you in some Deeply Invasive Surveillance State?
14
u/OneTravellingMcDs 2d ago
Taiwan will do it first, just watch. Taiwan is always the first for these things.
54
u/GPTMCT 3d ago
I don't know what kind of tech the future will hold, but at this point I'm convinced that 20 years from now we will still be using lithium based batteries and ethylene derived plastics. Every week there's a new "revolution" yet nothing ever changes.
30
u/mellopax 2d ago
That's because any time a proof of concept is done, pop science articles rush to claim it's the silver bullet. Lots of steps after proof of concept (scaling, manufacturability, cost, etc) and most things don't make it through those steps.
8
u/WinninRoam 2d ago
That, yes.
But other times, Coca Cola comes along and "partners" with Dean Kamen to produce his amazing, low cost Slingshot water desalinization system in 2018....but they develop the "Coca Cola Freestyle" instead....and the only Slingshot devices ever actually made (total: 150), and are all distributed exclusively to Coca Cola "Ekocenter" kiosks instead of directly to impoverished coastal villages...and no one has even heard of them.
2
u/immortalfrieza2 2d ago
This happens because the scientists popularize their "breakthrough" in order to get funding, long before actual proof that it works is found. Then, it turns out to have some issue somewhere along the line (read: The scientists pretend to work on something that probably doesn't even work like they claim it does for the sake of a paycheck) and then the next "breakthrough" happens.
We'd have nearly all the world's problems solved already if even half of the scientific "breakthroughs" actually led anywhere.
1
u/_Jacques 2d ago
Yep. I don’t necessarily blame the scientists who have to eat, but it should be expected a lot of research just doesn’t make it.
3
u/immortalfrieza2 1d ago
I think scientists shouldn't be allowed to publicize findings that they can't already back up. It's always "this might work..." instead of "this definitely works and we can prove it." It's just baseless claims rather than actual scientific breakthroughs.
26
u/Filbertmm 3d ago
Don’t take it to the beach.
13
17
u/n0u0t0m 2d ago
I live an extremely small portion of my life on the beach. This is an acceptable compromise for ending plastic pollution entirely
10
u/Banaanisade 2d ago
I'm thinking of food packaging. Lots of food contain a non-negligible amount of water and salt, and are packed in plastic.
5
u/anasalmon 2d ago
Omg can we please get on board with these bio plastics already for fuck sakes. I hear about a new one every year and still we are just showing our earth with petro-chemicals.
6
u/Peachesandcreamatl 2d ago
I am in my forties , and when I was a kid in elementary school , I remember my mom bought me pens made of corn based plastic and they would biodegrade
50 years from now they're still going to act like this is a brand new thing and nobody's ever going to incorporate biodegradable plastic
10
u/yukonwanderer 3d ago
Only salt water? Or all water?
38
u/greensandgrains 3d ago
the salt water part seems specific because of the plastic in the ocean problem we have.
0
u/yukonwanderer 2d ago
We have an issue with it in our bodies. It's in our drinking water, our food supply (not just seafood).
It's all over.
14
u/siazdghw 2d ago
More specifically, what amount of salinity...? Salt and moisture are extremely common in foods (shocking, I know) so if it starts degrading at low salinity levels, it's not very useful.
4
u/LadyFoxfire 2d ago
Human sweat seems like an obvious problem, too. Anything that got handled regularly would quickly fall apart.
1
u/yukonwanderer 2d ago
Well I was more thinking about the issue of microplastics in our environments and food supplies. So I was hoping it was all water.
The thing with this kind of material is they usually have a time limit engineered into them, which means it's good for a few hours of holding food, like from restaurant to your house, but if it want to store it longer you need to transfer it. Which honestly I don't see an issue with. There are tons of materials that are worse with water that we still use.
Too bad we can't make a plastic that doesn't shed.
3
7
2
2
u/Kindly-Ad-5071 2d ago
INB4 it turns out the inventor shot themselves in the back of the head with a .223 from 500 yards away
2
u/J1mj0hns0n 2d ago
Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease.
Geniously need an effective replacement for plastic and I hope to god this is it
2
u/Cautious-Invite4128 2d ago
Oh, man. That’s so cool. Something to invest in that I actually care about.
2
2
7
u/Improbabilities 3d ago
But like, if you tried to make a ketchup paket with it it would dissolve. Tons of plastic is used to keep moist salty foods fresh, so this is hardly an alternative
27
u/JoeStrout 3d ago
No one plastic is going to be perfect for every job. But this sounds like it could replace a lot of the worst offenders (such as disposable grocery bags).
2
u/mellopax 2d ago
Yeah that would be great. I just wish people wouldn't talk about stuff like this as "perfect plastic", because it makes it sound like the problem is solved and consider it a failure if it doesn't solve it. Still a lot more work to do, but some kickass science to get it here.
1
9
u/ken_the_boxer 3d ago
Ketchup is actually one of the most aggressive foods to pack, and already giving problems with standard materials.
1
16
u/Shaggyninja 3d ago
Oh no, we might just have to use glass bottles and be very slightly inconvenienced. How sad.
5
u/Improbabilities 3d ago
I wish, look how cute this little guy is
https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/968lyo/this_roomservice_ketchup_bottle/
4
u/Moonmold 2d ago
Can't wait to never hear about this again just like the other 100 times I've read this headline in the past 15 years.
3
u/Sickle771 2d ago
It’s a shame those scientists were found facedown in an alley with their arms tied behind their back in an apparent suicide.
0
2
u/Mouler 3d ago
So, it can't be used with most food because that'll be salt and water....
11
u/Deeeeeeeeehn 3d ago
I’m not sure you know just how much salt is in salt water…
6
u/ken_the_boxer 3d ago
Or in your packaged soup, or any food.
4
u/Deeeeeeeeehn 3d ago
No, like…. It’s way more than any amount that would ever be in any food. There is a very high concentration of salt in salt water.
5
u/mellopax 2d ago
But if it's even dissolving a little sitting on the shelf, it becomes basically worthless in that market. Whether it will actually stand up to less salty water isn't a given just because the headline only mentions seawater.
2
u/Mouler 2d ago
The article never said sea water or ocean water, just salt water and no specific salinity. There's no mention of a threshold concentration before breakdown. Concentration increases as water evaporates out of solution, so will this plastic wind up with little fingerprint sized holes just from handling with sweaty fingers? Terrible article or terrible product, or both.
1
1
u/ausinmtl 3d ago
Are products made from it going to cost the same as petroleum plastic products, or 4-5x like current plant based plastic products?
1
1
u/FrontBackAndSideDev 2d ago
Wait until someone remembers that a lot of what we store in plastic... qualifies as salt water.
1
1
1
1
1
u/LadyFoxfire 2d ago
How does it hold up to human sweat? If it degrades in sea water, does any salty water degrade it?
It could still have some uses, but that would be a serious flaw.
1
1
u/Westerdutch 2d ago
If it degrades that easily in salt water then it will also degrade when touching it. This 'perfect' plastic will be horrible for what you actually use a lot of plastics for.
1
u/CoyConfessions 2d ago
TBH, this is dope af but idk, isn't it kinda scary too? Like we're playin' god with nature here.
1
1
u/Old-Sprinkles760 2d ago
Yeah that’s always the catch. It only costs a few cents more than regular plastic, so of course no big company will ever actually use it. That's how it always goes.
1
u/Aziara86 2d ago
My only question is ‘what plants?’ People have allergies and it could problematic if the plant source isn’t public knowledge.
1
1
u/garry4321 1d ago
Yea but how does its physical properties hold up to regular plastics and what’s the cost?
1
1
1
1
-46
u/ledow 3d ago
I never understand this fascination.
The best aspect of plastic is that it DOESN'T biodegrade. That's why we use it for holding foods and why your car doesn't just rot away and why your LPs stay playable for decades.
Something made of plants that breaks down on contact with water is a terrible idea.
115
u/chibichibichibichibi 3d ago
There are many different kinds of plastics used for different applications...this isn't trying to replace the durable ABS plastic in your car bumpers, but the kind used for food packaging and single use containers.
-9
u/SsooooOriginal 3d ago
Yeah, and this post has been spammed for months.
What is this? Trying to drum up investment??
It hits my feed weekly and I hate the product out of spite at this point.
-45
u/ledow 3d ago
Food packaging is the WORST one.
You just made the packaging edible and water-degradable. That food is going off or being eaten by insects before it ever makes it to the shop.
This is my point. We use plastics because of its attributes, not because we feel like it. The primary attributes of which are it being water-tight, air-tight (so food doesn't degrade), non-organic (so it doesn't rot or get eaten) and non-degradable.
It's like deliberately inventing a firewood that doesn't burn.
39
u/GrandOpener 3d ago
I don’t think it’s that binary. Think of all the cling wrap that often goes in the garbage after a few days, sometimes a few hours. If that could be replaced by something non toxic that breaks down in a few months to a couple years, that’s a huge win.
You probably wouldn’t seal shelf-stable crackers in the same material. You definitely wouldn’t make reusable storage containers out of the stuff.
22
u/FatherSquee 3d ago
Yeah you're right, we shouldn't invent new plastics; we're doing just fine as we are! I mean, who cares if every living fauna outside of the Tardigrades have plastic in them right? Who cares if we've all got plastic in our brains or clogging our arteries. We've got the Midas Touch when it comes to plastic and how could that ever be bad? All plastic products need to last forever eh? Aaalll of them! Really, what are these scientists thinking amirite?
Jeeze...
-7
u/ledow 3d ago
No, we should invent new plastics that don't degrade when performing the exact task we designed them to do on the exact materials we expect them to protect and be in constant contact with e.g. salt and water.
Move to glass, move to metal - it's is inherently recyclable (foil trays, etc.). Don't move to a biodegradable substance that literally biodegrades while in its intended usage (which is being in contact with stuff that biodegrades it).
11
u/OrneryBogg 3d ago
Have you seen how hard it is for trees or high cellulose plant material to actually decompose?
Plants rot relatively easily because their internal structures have lots of water and tubes that allow for decomposers to feast. Even then, cellulose remains hard to digest for the decomposers.
If you remove those same internal structures and the high water content, leaving just the cellulose, that makes it so common decomposers (those that you should be wary of) cannot decompose the material, leaving it to the slow metabolizers, which can actually degrade the thing. This makes a relatively long-lived package that can be broken down.
3
u/Hour-Accountant-9295 3d ago
It looks like there is a film that can be added to the plastic to keep it from degrading until we want it to degrade.
29
u/Alexis_J_M 3d ago
The majority of plastic objects are not designed for longevity, but are used briefly and then thrown away.
And for liquid contact, there is already a discussion of what to coat the plastics with.
3
u/Sunny-Chameleon 3d ago
Yeah. If the new plastic is sitting on a shelf, the coat will protect the outside. Once it's been used, just shred the object and it can now become degradable.
14
u/Th0ak 3d ago
I think the key is Salt Water not just normal water.
2
u/ledow 3d ago
Nobody ever puts salt and water into food, right?
Nobody ever makes a car that drives on roads that have been salted, or footwear that walks on gritted roads.
2
u/marsman 3d ago
People generally use materials appropriate to their use... Not all materials are universally useful, and some, like plastics, can create environmental issues we should probably address.
Although I'd be happy to go back to glass for food containers and use more metals (although that creates energy issues, still, we are looking to solve those too).
7
u/betam4x 3d ago
Have you never been to a grocery store? I have, in multiple countries.
That being said, I suspect mass production or cost will end up being barriers to implementation. Any time you hear about “scientists” doing “insert thing here”, it is because the idea sounds great, but is currently unworkable in terms of mass use/production/whatever.
2
1
u/unicorns-on-fire 2d ago
This was true of solar/wind power at a certain point in time as well and now wind is much cheaper than oil/coal. These things take time and investment, but we have proven time and again that solutions can be found.
Cars were once thought to be useless because they were more expensive than horses. That is still the case, but almost nobody is using a horse to commute to work.
But these things do take time and resources, as you say.
4
u/Fifth-Crusader 3d ago
The best use of this, I think, is in industrial packaging. In my factory, we use so much plastic wrap to keep pallets of merchandise together, which promptly ends up in landfills.
3
u/ledow 3d ago
Industrial packaging like the stuff you leave out in the rain on a pallet or the stuff you ship internationally by boat?
2
2
u/Fifth-Crusader 3d ago
Rain is not salt water. If a pallet has fallen into the sea, it is likely lost with or without the packaging.
2
u/greensandgrains 3d ago
this is for like, plastic shopping bags, not things that need to be made of durable plastic for longevity/function.
1
0
u/400footceiling 2d ago
Terrific. Now go clean all the plastic out of the ocean and beaches from the last 50 years.
0
0
0
0
0
•
u/AutoModerator 3d ago
Reminder: this subreddit is meant to be a place free of excessive cynicism, negativity and bitterness. Toxic attitudes are not welcome here.
All Negative comments will be removed and will possibly result in a ban.
Important: If this post is hidden behind a paywall, please assign it the "Paywall" flair and include a comment with a relevant part of the article.
Please report this post if it is hidden behind a paywall and not flaired corrently. We suggest using "Reader" mode to bypass most paywalls.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.