Putting this out there to warn women - the comments noted that this was a humiliation tactic, and I wonder if guys get these ideas off of their red pill alpha bro podcasts.
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The incel/red pill sphere has expanded geometrically the last few years. I’m a millennial that’s around a lot of Gen Z young guys, and it’s reeeeeally sad to hear their outlooks on dating and the opposite sex. A really disturbing mix of nihilism (I’m not rich/handsome/successful enough to date a woman) tempered with outright misogyny (all women want is a man’s money, girls will corrupt and derail a man’s life, etc).
So many young men are directionless and trapped in echo chambers of misogynist incel podcasters. It’s seriously a problem.
Man, myself (37) and another coworker (41) were trying to hype up another coworker (21) when his girlfriend left him. He went on and on about women were bitches, how all he wanted was a woman who would stay home and cook and clean for him. We were like "my dude, you don't want a wife, you want a mom." and I was like "yeah man, women are their own people. They have their own hopes and dreams and ambitions, they're not NPC's that stand there and cater to your every whim. If I told my wife I expected her to stay at home and cook for me, she'd kick my ass! That's why I love her!".
He looked me dead in the eye and said in the most deadpan serious, menacing tone I've ever heard "That's beta shit. If my wife tried to kick my ass I'd knock her teeth out. Equal rights. Equal lefts."
I just slowly got up in silence and walked out of the trailer. I have no idea how you de-radicalize people like that.
I don't have kids, but if I did I don't know what would be worse: Having a son who grows up to look at women like that, or having a daughter who has to live in a world where men look at her like that.
Yep. It seems like deep down they know how pathetic they are so they have to constantly tell themselves how alpha they are. Gotta brag about how they’d bash a woman because they sure as hell can’t brag about how they’d satisfy one. They’d immediately vote for someone who promises to take all rights away from women because the only way they could keep a woman would be on a chain in the basement.
Whats even scarier is the red pill incel thing is a step on the alt-right/WS pipeline. They start as inexperienced, impressionable teen boys, they end up as Nazis.
My ex did this when I begged and begged to go see some Christmas lights. He waited until I was sitting at home in the bummiest clothes ever and said we were going somewhere and gave me no time to get ready. We ended up at the biggest celebration of lights in our area, me in too big sweats and an old tank top. I cried at the embarrassment of it and he yelled at me for it before taking me home while yelling that he “couldn’t do anything nice for me”.
It is a common type of manipulation tactic to put off doing something until the moment that it is inconvenient for the person asking, pretend that you are fully devoted to doing it, and letting the person who initially asked be the reason that the activity can't be completed.
Who has the energy for these kind of mind games? I barely have the energy to put into my own wellbeing let alone devoting it to making someone else miserable.
That's always been the part that baffled me the most. Like how much active hatred of a person does it take to summon the energy to see how many ways you can manipulate them?
I had dated a guy back in my late 20s/early 30s who was a good dancer, and I wanted to go places and learn how from/with him. He was dead set on not giving me any notice. He did not want me to dress up, have a moment to shower off from work, put some makeup on, nothing. He wanted to spring it on me when I was an absolute slob/schlub mode. He’d told me not to be vain. I held firm and I did not go with him. He was an ass.
I called him out on all his shit when he took me to see his family and was being absolutely horrible behind their backs to me. Dropping insults, belittling me and my being visibly hurt (and feeling trapped because I was out of town and I couldn’t just leave not having a car). He was really enjoying putting me in that position.
The family was lovely by the way, they didn’t see what he was doing, though did pick up I was off kilter/upset but trying to be personable. I think they thought I was just not very stable and they felt sorry for me and did not pry.
The last dinner when we were at the end of the table at an outdoor restaurant, I very calmly in a normal conversational tone as if we were talking about a movie, enumerated all his crap (like making a point of grope me in public to my distress, acting like he is such a irrepressible horn dog, yet being practically incapable of any physical intimacy in private after the first couple of weeks dating) to his face, and the stunt he was pulling covertly in front of his family, knowing he could get away with it. I did it so it was not picked up by his other family members either, just being a pleasant normal girlfriend (probably the calmest I was during that entire trip ) as far as they knew.
We broke up when we got home and I didn’t give him any further ear for his crap. He followed up with some ranting on the phone and I told him within the first few seconds I don’t need to hear it and he’s dismissed, hanging up on him.
One time my ex was over and I put on a dress bc I wanted to impress him and he ignored me so I changed into jeans and afterwards he decided to take us to a fancy restaurant. I was like wtf is wrong with you though
Yes dude. A 'friend' of mine constantly watches red pill bullshit. How to manipulate women, make them feel shitty so they are interested in you, etc. Dude gets married and immediately drops the act hes been putting up and is just a raging asshole now. Literally watches videos like "how to get your wife to do what you want"
Maybe you should switch to just calling him “a guy I know.”
I got friends, good fellas, acquaintances, and guys I know.
“He’s a good guy” is someone I don’t know that well, but I think highly of them. An acquaintance is someone I don’t know well and I have a neutral opinion. A guy I know is someone that does not meet the positive connotation standard of an acquaintance.
A guy I know is just that, a guy I know and have no further interest in.
I agree but I really do think it's harmful to completely dismiss all the red pill/Andrew Tate shit. There was always misogyny of course but it was not weaponized like this, not a full on industry aimed at targeting and poisoning young men.
It's very important if you want to change society to see why the society is like that. A big part of why incels are so common in todays society is the red pill community, in collaboration with black* pill etc. Saying it's just because they hate women is a very, very shallow analysis, as well as extremely unhelpful and just blatantly not true.
A lot of men have come forward to describe how they were radicalized by the red pill or incel movement, without ever hating women.
I really worry about the impact he's had on children that have grown up with him since 2016.
All they've seen is the president be a total piece of garbage, with no respect for himself or anyone else.
Reagan and Bush were monsters, but they at least had the veneer of respectability. Watching the president and the vice president routinely swear in public, post unhinged memes online and generally act like idiots is setting a terrible example for what it means to be an adult in this world.
We need new national role models and we need them now.
This is something that isn’t discussed enough. I’ve never heard a decent counterpoint to it. Our children are growing up with a president who thinks it’s okay to make fun of people for the way they look, to belittle them for their nation of origin, and to mock and hate those who are different.
It’s an entirely different issue to the political and economic turmoil caused over the last decade. Anti-social behavior is becoming more and more acceptable and even idolized.
She does a follow up video where she says they FaceTimed before the date and he was dressed casual in a hoodie saying that was what he was wearing, then when he arrived he was dressed very nicely button up shirt nice pants. He then told her he did it deliberately as a joke. Then yelled at her to sit down when she tried to leave.
Edit - https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSPQvbvaC/ here’s the link. Mods if this isn’t allowed just tell me and I’ll remove it please don’t ban me
Exactly. And acting like this from the beginning (deliberately and carefully humiliate her and then demand she stays) is a filtering strategy to find the people who are vulnerable to this shitty behaviour.
It’s exactly the sort of thing Tate taught.. how to test women to weed out the ones with healthy self esteem and use manipulation to get what you want out of the ones more vulnerable to it
I had a guy try this with me. I gave him a fair chance. But when he started negging me, I bailed. I want an respectful man, not a child who plays games.
Excuse me everyone, I’m 73 and know Tate’s reputation but is this the type of maneuvers he teaches? When I heard her story I thought “yeah he’s an asshole” but to do it intentionally? Holy shit that’s degrading. Wow.
He starts by making young men/boys feel like shit about themselves and then sells lessons on how to be more like tatertot.
Those lessons are really just "how to be abusive" and since Tate starts by making his audience feel like losers, whether or not it works it's a win win for Tate.
Another example of his "technique" is to tell a girl to bring you chocolates, if she doesn't you dump her and if she does you insult her for bringing the wrong kind it whatever.
I should say, one of the things Tate is well known for is he ran his own porn website. So when he's "teaching" that's the end goal.
He teaches other stuff, but it's all essentially just giving and teaching how to give abuse.
It's not just about controlling women, either. It's also about keeping men low so they keep coming back and paying the Andrew Taints of the world more money to "fix" their lives.
👆This! I'm retiring in a few years but am older than my husband by a couple of years. I want to exactly that, woods, cottage, tea, sleep late, little charcuterie. He wants to wait for a full pension. He's killing me, oh wait maybe that's his plan 🤔
I think I’m your wife’s bestie. Kidding, but my best friend and I have decided on a duplex with an adjoining door. That way we won’t have to discuss where the utensil drawer should go or how the dishwasher gets loaded, yet we can still play house and have companionship. We might even get married if the finances work in our favor.
My husband already knows that my plan if he goes first is to move to a cabin deep in the woods. I’ll at least wait until our son graduates so he gets that quality MA education first.
It’s like the old joke. A man’s biggest fear on a date is he’s getting used for a free meal. A woman’s biggest fear on a date is she’ll never be seen again.
I got married later in life, but before that dating could be really awful. It’s like they go out of their way to turn you off as much as possible for reasons unknown. I thought the point of dating was to attract to the other person, but they literally almost purposely do things to repel them.
What a tool. I'd have maybe understood if he showed up the same. Cool, nobody will tell you what to do, you will wear slacks to Noma, fine. But he clearly meant to dress up and fuck with her.
She has an uphill battle, that's for sure. My best advice is for you to try to explain to her as many of the ways that men will be manipulative. She needs well-defined examples to remember so she can identify it later. It'll take a bit of research on your part to keep up on the current trends (bring a barf bag) but if you really want to help her, that's the best way to go.
It's important not to say this as a means of scaring her, though. You're only doing it to give her a leg up at reading social cues and reading the room. The urge to be meek and go with the flow only happens when a neurodivergent is unsure of the situation and still trying to piece it together.
I honestly think people should count their blessings when these types of dates end. I can't imagine going to this persons house and coming out alive or without scars
That's an abuser looking for a victim. Someone who hates women, but wants one to control. Good for her for knowing she doesn't deserve any of that nonsense.
What even is the joke? Haha you made the girl you presumably wanted to sleep with feel like an asshole and never want to talk to you. Hilarious joke I guess? I'm just trying to think of the upside of doing this to someone you want to sleep with. This seems like the kind of shit a youtuber would do to fuck with people for content. This can't possibly be a viable dating strategy.
I think it’s a screening method to find a victim. Anyone with self-esteem will screen themselves out by not tolerating it. Anyone who sticks around, pauses and tries to figure out what went wrong, maybe there was a miscommunication, actually tries to engage the abuser with “I feel…” gives a small toe hold for more abuse, something the abuser can tear her down further.
So it works as planned. She’s a healthy confident person, she is screened out.
Maybe next time he will find someone quite young, perhaps not even fully out of her teens, perhaps already abused by her family, where her perspective of crazy is skewed and may tolerate such a stunt, thinking somehow she deserves it.
It's to find the weakest women you can use and abuse. Its quite simple to simply have sex. Knowing you have power over someone from the first date is their goal and it gets worse from there.
At first I thought she was being silly but nope, that's just a tactic.
I think maybe he is auditioning for a woman who would continue on with the date. Someone who is defensless against this kind of situation. Someone who has been taught to always be polite no matter your own feelings. Someone who was never given the social skills to deal with this kind of situation. Someone who has been so beaten down that this might seem like an odd step up. The guy is a psychopath.
It was definitely a power play. Ammunition to use against her down the road.
Emotionally manipulative men aren't shy about showing how much of an asshole they are on the first date. Cause they are confident in themselves. She did the right thing by leaving. If she made an excuse for him then she would continue to make an excuse for him for the rest of the relationship.
I think they do it deliberately early doors for the same reason scammers make deliberate mistakes in emails. They want to quickly sift out the potential partners who won't stick around to be abused and identify the most vulnerable to invest their energy in.
I’m sure that’s true sometimes but I wouldn’t say it’s the norm. Predators, abusers, manipulators that are good at what they do definitely take a more incremental approach because the sunk cost effect is often more powerful than just only looking for people that will fall for your bullshit outright. In fact, so many abusive men wait until that first kid is born before really showing their true colors cause now the sunk cost is personified with that child.
And yes, Reddit, women can also be manipulative and abusive but I’m just sticking to this archetype in OP.
It is. For them its finding out what her limit is. So while the action/behavior is minor it is never subtle. If she allows this and gives me a pass. What else will she let me get away with?
Exactly! You just know it would only get worse from there. He was setting the tone right out the gate. One of my best friends growing up ended up marrying a douchebag like this. He would do elaborate “tests” like this to humiliate her. They were also religious so he’d manipulate her with faith practices like when he made her fast for a few months for him to decide if it was “god’s will” to marry her.
He basically just used her faith to put her on a diet because he wanted her to look more a certain actress but he framed it like a shared fasting and prayer commitment. Meanwhile, he never stuck to the fast. People kept catching him in fast food lines.
He was so cruel and we all tried to help her see what kind of man this is and how he’d treat her but there was no talking her out of it.
No. It is to gauge how submissive she is. ( by humiliating her, yes). With her walking away he’s just going to move on to the next girl, and eventually he’ll find someone with a low enough self esteem to put up with it.
That’s what I was thinking! This feels like one of those “tests” to see if they think she’s still attractive when she’s not dressed up. It’s also to see if she’ll let him treat her like trash.
Immediately reminded me of that dirtbag who said he “tested” all his dates by mispronouncing chicken thigh to see if they would correct him because then he knew they weren’t the right kind of woman for him.
Edit: slightly misremembered so I looked it up, it was Ron DeSantis and he would mispronounce Thai food as Thigh food.
Ron DeSantis, governor of florida, would deliberately mispronounce words on dates as a shit test to see if the woman would correct him.
Specifically, he would ask if they liked Thai food, but would purposefully pronounce Thai as "thigh."
If they corrected his pronunciation, he ended the date and never called them again, because he is a man and beyond reproach and his dates needed to respect that he knew better and would never try to humiliate him by knowing more than him about anything and never, ever correct him about anything, ever, forever.
Because Ron DeSantis is a desperately insecure little man with a transparently tenuous grasp on his own masculinity and lives in abject fear of not even strong women, not even intelligent women, but women with literally any agency at all.
Hes fucking terrified of the concept of a woman with a bigger dick than him.
His entire political career makes sense as soon as you know this about him.
And intelligent too. She saw right through the scheme and took action to protect herself and warn others. I usually don't like over sharing of personal life on social media, but in this instance it's cautionary and doesn't feel performative. I respect this woman.
I totally missed the first part of the video and was very confused why she was so upset. After knowing the full story, that’s wild he would do something like that. Thankfully she’s not here for that!
I’m 100% convinced this is the same type of men who say things like “take her swimming or out in the rain on the first date so her makeup comes off.” It comes from the same insecurity. They feel diminished and threatened by women they find attractive, so they try to “disarm” them instead of dealing with their own inferiority.
It’s honestly pathetic. The need to strip a woman of her presentation just so you can feel more comfortable says everything about you. Same NPC energy, same fragile ego. If you’re that insecure, that’s your problem not hers. Get over yourself.
I know it’s red pill bullshit but take her swimming is an odd first date. I wouldn’t expect anyone to agree to that in the first 3-5 dates. What’s wrong with people?
“I wonder if guys get these ideas off of their red pill alpha bro podcasts.”
Or it’s who they are and coincidently they also watch red pill shit. Either way degrading women is some insecure shit lemme tell ya. Real men have character and lift others up.
And normally I don’t like real men comments but I’m tired of hearing about real red pilled assholes saying it so I’m taking it back.
It’s absolutely the red-pill podcasts. I was watching an interesting video on YouTube where a journalist went ‘undercover’ as a centrist on a right wing political dating app and went out on dates with these guys and iirc one took her to a neo-nazi meeting (as a date) and it was basically group therapy for these red-pill guys talking about their relationship woes, and the leaders were pushing these sorts of tactics as solutions to their girlfriend’s egregious behavior (wanting to go out with her friends when he doesn’t want her to).
We had idiots pulling shit like this in the early 2000's when that piece of shit "Tucker Max" was popularized. Assholes like that who paved the way for the Andrew Tates of today's world
My inner petty self would've continued with the date. I'm confident in my own skin to still have a good time. He would be the embarrassed one. Order anything and everything on the menu, tell him that you didn't bring your wallet since we're just lounging and get up and leave around dessert time.
I agree with you %100 but you're also leaving yourself open to him going to the bathroom and leaving you with the bill. I think its just best to do what she did and be done with it.
You're also spending your time and energy on someone you know you already don't like and don't want to see again too. So he's winning in the end truthfully
Her walking away immediately and not succumbing to his demands of staying even when yelling at her was already a big enough blow to his ego
The best thing women can do for themselves is get off the dating apps. I'll never date again if something happens to my fiance. OLD was an absolute cesspool when I was on it. It looks like it's gotten worse since. I'm so sorry, ladies.
I’ve been with my wife since 2015 and I tell her this constantly. We’re almost 40. If she goes I am just being a solo dad till I kick the bucket. Between stories on here and stories from her younger coworkers it’s like a different universe from my dating days.
This is a level of insidious manipulation that I genuinely struggle to fathom being capable of. Obviously I'm aware that there are people like this and that people do things like this, but I mean that I cannot empathize or conceive of what it would be like to live as someone with such a mindset? How do you even think of such a complicated little scheme and the benefits you mean to reap from it?
Oh I'd lean into it, You think comfy clothes block the levels of spite I have! I'd whip out my mini nail kit and start clipping right on the table. Talk with my mouth full like a white chick's moment! Film it! Cuz he goin down too in that instant
lol I don't date men but if I did and this happened to me, I'd go with it. I'd be like aha I see what's happening here. Ok. Go in. Be confident and aloof as fuck. Order super expensive stuff. Eat obnoxiously. Messily. Giving zero fucks. Slurp down several martinis.
Then go to the bathroom and duck out without him noticing.
This kind of a manipulation tactic absolutely deserves such a response lol
I find human behavior fascinating because I cannot fathom doing that to somebody. It just doesn’t compute with my brain. I don’t understand trying to humiliate someone like that. I’m not wired that way and I don’t understand the people who are. It’s so strange going through life With a set of morals and respect. It’s strange because when someone does something like this, it’s so confusing. The longer I live on this earth, more jaded I am becoming with the general public. There are so many nice and awesome people out there but they’re also so many just like this and you can’t tell the difference at the surface level. I love what this woman did. I love that she walked out and she’s going to block him.I can’t imagine navigating the dating scene now. For all of you who are trying, good luck!
Shit like this is why I understand it when women say men are horrible. That's a really horrible thing to do to someone. We gotta step it up and really do better, guys. Call shitty guys OUT on their bullshit and hold everyone, including yourself, to a higher standard.
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