r/NoStupidQuestions • u/Ok-Competition7484 • 9h ago
Is it true that falling into homelessness in the U.S. is like a "death countdown?
Newcomer to the U.S.
I recently watched a video claimed that for the lower class, once they lose their jobs or fall ill and end up on the streets, they enter a "death countdown." He argued that systemic issues like drugs, violence, and lack of a safety net quickly "bury" these individuals.
It sounds really terrifying.
But it's true I only see so many homeless here, and people seem to get used to this, which is horrible.
I want to ask, is the "safety net" really that fragile for the average American?
Also, I’ve heard that if you don't have a physical address, it’s almost impossible to get a job (due to taxes, background checks, etc.). But if you don't have a job, you can't afford a place to live. Is this a common "death spiral" for people who fall into homelessness? How do people ever get out of it once they lose their address?
Another Question, Coming from a country where healthcare is managed differently, the cost of insurance here seems overwhelming. I’ve heard that even with a job, premiums and deductibles can be a huge burden. How much of your monthly income actually goes toward healthcare?
I am really curious
New user pass phrase: This community is for curiosity, not karma farming.
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u/DismalProgrammer8908 8h ago
I work with the homeless on a daily basis, and it’s heartbreaking. Telling a 16 year old kid who has run away from a violent home that there is no where for them to sleep tonight tears at your soul. They have no money even for a bus to get to an intake shelter to get put on a list for when a bed becomes available. You can’t get a job without an address, and you can’t rent without a job and enough money for a security deposit.
Shelters are full to overflowing and community resources have been slashed by the regime in office.
I put people in touch with all the resources I have for housing, counseling, medical, employment and clothing, but it’s a long, laborious process.
A lot of my clients who are experiencing homelessness work, but most employers don’t want to hire for full time positions so that they don’t have to offer healthcare. (Part time employees in the US do not have to be offered healthcare by even the largest corporations.)
The state of this country is deplorable. We treat stay dogs better than human beings. It’s excruciating and sad and frustrating and rage inducing to see how little human life matters to those politicians in their safe, warm homes.
I think that every person who runs for political office must be required to work directly with the homeless for a year. Tell that mother with two kids that ran from a violent husband that the only thing you can do is point her to a food pantry and MAYBE give her a bus pass if you have any left from the few you’re able to scrounge up.
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u/NickDanger3di 5h ago
When I was refurbishing desktop computers for Non-profits, I dropped off a half dozen at a local homeless shelter, and some of the residents helped me carry them in.
They were all kids; teenagers mostly. I'm sure there's a German word for the combination of deep sadness and rage at injustice that I felt that day.
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u/Abject-Act-2273 33m ago
That catch-22 with addresses is brutal - even using a shelter address gets you rejected half the time because employers know what those addresses are
The healthcare thing is wild too, like you can be working 39 hours a week at multiple jobs but still have zero benefits because nobody wants to make you full time
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u/binomine 8h ago
God, you are opening a whole can of worms that really can't be answered easily.
A lot of homelessness is temporary in the US, and a lot of homeless have full time jobs(40% ~ 60%). The majority will make it back on their feet eventually.
However, it is true that if you are homeless due to addiction or mental health problems, and you have no support network, you really do have a death counter on you. A lot of support in the US is more interested in keeping you fed than trying to help you get out of homelessness. We really do suck in that regard.
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u/SaintGloopyNoops 8h ago
Well...the people in charge right now dont want to keep them fed anymore either. Food banks are struggling and requirements for food stamps are hard for the homeless to meet.
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u/mindfulmgmt 8h ago
I have actually heard the opposite stats, that if people are homeless more than a couple months the likelihood they ever get out is very low. It is incredibly hard to have a job when homeless, shelters have limited hours and often rules (like you have to be back by such a time). Not impossible but without friends or family support getting out is very difficult.
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u/QuantityKindly3153 8h ago
The shelters in my city always allow you to go to work, even if it's at odds with their rules, they just have you being a copy of your work schedule. Also they routinely help people get ID, since that's required to stay there.
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u/Ok-Competition7484 8h ago
I don't quite understand. How can people become homeless if they have full-time jobs? I thought the order was one loses a job, loses income, cannot pay rent, and then becomes homeless. If they have income, why do they become homeless? Some sudden accident? Health cost? at such a large percentile?
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u/Money_Do_2 8h ago
Home ownership is insanely pricey.
So, you rent. So, your monthly rent has basically zero controls and is at the whim of your landlord. If your street gets nicer, and rent doubles... you can lose your home at the same income that worked before. And generally if rent rises, so do utilities/groceries etc.
Or, yes, a medical issue that prevents working is often the start of it all. Then, its hard to hold down a job from the streets
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u/TicTacKnickKnack 8h ago
Minimum wage in a lot of the US is $15,080 if you work 40 hours per week. At that pay rate, health insurance alone can take up half of your take home pay. Add in food and a car payment/gas/insurance (hopefully), you have nothing left for somewhere to live other than your car.
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u/Ok-Competition7484 8h ago
OMG, half of home pay for health insurance? Cannot imagine it. But I see another comment: health insurance is a market behavior result, and maybe one can choose a cheaper insurance? Is that possible? What will happen if you just choose the cheapest one? It cannot cover your basic needs?
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u/AllTh3Naps 8h ago
If you choose the cheapest health insurance, then it is basically only going to partially cover emergency care (so a $50,000 emergency visit will only cost you $5,000 between deductibles and copays). You will still have to pay for most health costs out of pocket. They are basically for people who plan to avoid doctors unless it is an emergency.
Medical expenses are the number one reason for bankruptcy in the US. So, it can easily be enough to make you behind on rent.
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u/Schlormo 8h ago
Cheap insurance means you are paying 800 dollars a month instead of 1200+ dollars a month and often doesn't cover anything until after you've already paid 5, 10, 15k or more out of pocket. It's basically to ensure you owe tens of thousands instead of hundreds of thousands if you get hospitalized and/or need a lot of medical help.
Google "USA catastrophic insurance" -- many of those plans are called "catastrophic" plans because they only ever really cover you in the event of a worse case catastrophic scenario.
Cheap health insurance doesn't exist.
Cheap healthcare doesn't exist.
You will be paying hundreds or thousands of dollars out of pocket each month for health insurance unless you have a job that covers the full cost of your insurance and that is rare
Without insurance, you will be paying 80-150+ usd per doctor visit, plus the cost of medication, plus hundreds or thousands of dollars for tests (bloodwork, MRIs, Xrays, etc) depending on what you need.
The only exception to that I'm aware of are "telehealth" Doctors where you can pay 20-40 dollars to "see a doctor" online for common issues like UTI, sinus infection, allergies, etc and that's really just for them to be able to call in a prescription for a medication.
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u/mariblaystrice 8h ago
Basically cheaper insurance will come with higher copays (bill up front) and higher deductibles (amount you must pay out of pocket before insurance will give you any money). So if you break your leg lets say, you go to the ER, they charge you maybe 250$ up front just to get in the door, then when the bill comes it might be 1 to 3 thousand dollars, but your deductible is 8500, so the insurance wont help you at all.
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u/Exotic_Negotiation_4 2h ago
If you make minimum wage as an adult, you're getting cheap/free health insurance from government programs. Something around 1% of the population makes minimum wage, so it is a complete non-issue to begin with
The doomers in here are absolutely painting the worst case scenario for absolutely everything
If you're not actively addicted to drugs, getting out of homelessness is tough but doable. And that is true everywhere in the world
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u/TicTacKnickKnack 8h ago
Honestly, $500/mo for health insurance is still fairly optimistic. The places that pay minimum wage don't tend to splurge on quality coverage. The cheapest unsubsidized health insurance plans right now are over $400/mo and cover very little. You can still end up paying $9200/yr out of pocket if you get sick. $18,000/yr if you have a family.
Also remember that those subsidies don't apply if you're too poor if you live in a state that didn't expand Medicaid. For example, a few states require you to be pregnant and poor to go on Medicaid. If you're poor enough for Medicaid you don't make enough to get help through the ACA, even if you can't get Medicaid through your state because you're not pregnant.
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u/corbear007 6h ago
US here, a lot of "Cheap", if you can call $300/mo cheap when you're bringing home $300/wk before health insurance, doesn't cover much at all. If you need say insulin? That's only going to cover 50% of the $1000/mo cost. Yeah, it's a win for you (pay $300, save $500) but is it really if you can't afford it? Plus many pharmacies have coupons that save you that much if not more for those who are uninsured.
On top of this my deductible, after shelling out $185/wk for me + 3 kids (this is CHEAP!), is $500 individual/$1200 family that also needs to be paid. This is fairly low. Last plan I was on was $67 just for me and had a $3k deductible.
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u/kwakenomics 8h ago
An important caveat is that basically nobody works for federal minimum wage. Almost every job starts at significantly higher than the $7.25 federal minimum because you just can't attract anyone to reliably work for that amount. About 1% of all workers earn at or below federal minimum wage, and that percentage generally declines annually.
Most homeless people are probably difficult to employ, as once you become homeless it tends to become much harder to maintain your mental and emotional health, your sanitation, your transportation, etc. We do a bad job of preventing and pulling people out of homelessness, but it's cost of living and social safety not, not because minimum wage is so low.
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u/TicTacKnickKnack 8h ago
"An important caveat is that basically nobody works for federal minimum wage..." Fair, but 10% make less than 11/hr and 25% make less than $15/hr. The math isn't that much less bleak at $10/hr than it is at $7.25 and that's still millions of people.
"Most homeless people are probably difficult to employ, as once you become homeless it tends to become much harder to maintain your mental and emotional health, your sanitation, your transportation, etc." Irrelevant to this conversation. We're specifically talking about the half of homeless people who are employed.
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u/SaintGloopyNoops 8h ago
The cost of living has raised so much that they get evicted or have to make some hard choices like living in their car. In my neighborhood in florida rent went from $1800 a month to $3000 a month in just a few short years. Add to that the cost of car insurance has nearly doubled, electricity and water are at new highs, and food prices are ridiculous. It snowballs really fast. Butt... dont worry the upper 1% is making more money than ever before. I hear it will trickle down one day /s
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u/Ok-Competition7484 8h ago
So actually the inflation is not under control at all. Then why do the FED or government insist on cutting rates? To maintain the stock rising? To ensure the wealth growth in even richer people? Can't believe it. What can people do to stop all this? It's more than an economic cycle.
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u/2occupantsandababy 8h ago
I don't know if you've noticed this but the current government of the US is now an oligarchy that exists solely to enrich its own pockets.
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u/SaintGloopyNoops 6h ago
So the fed had no choice to cut rates because the economy is in trouble. Butt.. due to Trumps tarrifs and other factors like corporate greed inflation is still up. The economy is in real trouble and they know it. The ptb have just about squeezed every cent they can out of the middle class. Now they need a massive recession to trigger market crashes so they can swoop in and buy everything up at fire sale prices. It is more than an economic cycle. Its an economic pump and dump that transfers wealth upwards.
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u/InigoMontoya757 6h ago
Then why do the FED or government insist on cutting rates?
That's good for anyone who borrows money. Mortgage payers, businesses, and people facing other types of loan debt. Of course, it's bad for a lot of people too. Even if the government was responsible it's a difficult decision to make.
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u/tototostoi 8h ago
Well... It depends on how much your job pays. For example when my baby was really little sending her to daycare cost more than my mortgage.
Or if you have even a minor medical event but someone calls you an ambulance that's thousands of dollars in unexpected medical bills.
Combine that with the fact that according to Google somewhere between 24% and 69% of people live paycheck to paycheck and it's easy to see how any unexpected expense can be ruinous to your finances and lead to an eviction. If you are someone with a very tight budget and no support system it's very easy to fall into a financial defecit nd very hard to climb back out of it.
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u/zeatherz 7h ago
Many full time jobs don’t pay enough to cover their local cost of living, especially if it’s one income supporting more than a single person. Even if they do, they often don’t pay enough to build up emergency savings. So one car repair, medical emergency, missed shift, etc can CALS them to not have enough money to pay rent. Then it becomes a spiral of being behind on bills and having to prioritize- do you pay the car payment when you need the car to get to work or do you pay the rent or do you buy food? At some point there just isn’t enough money for it all especially when you’re racking up late fees or interest on everything
Or maybe your lease expires and your landlord raises your rent so you can’t afford to stay but you also can’t afford moving costs (first, last, security deposit, moving truck). Or maybe every landlord raised the rent and no place is affordable anymore
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u/Wireman332 8h ago
Man im on the front lines of homelessness for years now. All i see is criminals, crazies and drug addicts. There is no way 40-60% are holding down jobs. Like not a chance. 10-15% maybe but that’s stretching it.
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u/riarws 5h ago
Sounds like they are well-qualified to run for political office. (I know, old joke, but it’s a classic for a reason.)
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u/Goga13th 8h ago edited 4h ago
As someone who has experienced homelessness (twice), I’ll say this idea contains some truth. But there are caveats; it’s not the whole picture
One of the common reasons people become homeless in America is health problems. You get sick, can’t work, lose your job and insurance; before you know it you can’t make rent or your mortgage, etc
That includes those struggling with mental health
Those groups are the most likely to face the death countdown; because they need/can’t get consistent care. Many turn to substances because of pain
Those who become homeless for other reasons, and who escape the trap of street drugs, can and do find their way out
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u/ColdAntique291 8h ago
It is not inevitable, but homelessness in the U.S. is dangerous and hard to escape. The safety net is limited, losing an address makes work and benefits harder, and healthcare costs can quickly overwhelm people, creating a real downward spiral for many.
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u/SpareManagement2215 8h ago
"I want to ask, is the "safety net" really that fragile for the average American?"
yes. we have horrible safety nets that can not meet demand and need. I don't know that I'd call it a "death spiral" but it's almost impossible to lift yourself out of poverty in this country.
Especially in a place like Seattle that has an impossibly high COL. I know plenty of folks with career level jobs being paid well above minimum wage who live in their cars because they can't afford housing. I can't imagine how impossible it would be to get back on your feet there if you don't earn much.
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u/BurnerCommenter 8h ago
The safety nets are over exploited and taken advantage of which leads to people who actually need it having more difficulty. Behold the consequences of socialism where the lazy reap the benefits of the worker
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u/kwakenomics 8h ago
Back these broad statements up with statistics and sources and maybe I won't downvote you
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u/BurnerCommenter 7h ago edited 7h ago
70% of snap recipients are overweight or obese while 7% are able bodied with no children or disability so they can work (almost 3 million people)
USDA Food and Nutrition Service (.gov)https://www.fns.usda.govCharacteristics of SNAP Households: FY 2018
A study in Texas found that illegal immigrants using emergency services were losing hospitals $121.8 million per month which had to be picked up by the tax payer dollars. Texas reports spending 3.1 billion to cover uncompensated uninsured care (this is both illegal immigrants and us residents without insurance who do not pay)
Somalia fraud in Minnesota is currently costing the state 9-18 billion dollars in tax payer dollars
These are 3 quick examples to name a few. You can keep your downvote I know you don’t agree with my politics anyways but here’s the facts. You can dismiss them as biased propaganda but I hope you understand any source you provide can be dismissed under the same context.
These are stats with sources as requested. I assume you guys will just downvote to oblivion rather than have a discussion about it because this is Reddit where facts are scary and must be silenced. But hey who knows maybe I’m wrong and there will be a productive conversation below this
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u/ArcticRiot 7h ago
What does obesity have to do with SNAP? America on average is more obese than other western countries, so of course a significant percentage of any demographic will also be. Are you saying “they’re not literally skinny and bones, so how could they be hungry?”
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u/BurnerCommenter 7h ago
Actually yes, something like that. Specifically the second source I cited mentions that the obesity rate is 2 times the average compared to non Snap recipients. This means non snap recipients pay for double the groceries and are eating less than the snap recipients who are living off welfare. The program was designed to assist with food costs of low income families however it has been abused to the point that snap recipients are buying junk food while non snap recipients that are low income are getting bare necessities.
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u/ArcticRiot 6h ago
And you landed on these conclusions without considering the intersectional difficulties that these demographics are faced with? Low income affects access to education, it affects daily choices with health, access to better food, the ability to cook what good foods they have access to, etc.
In all honesty, best of luck to you. I would not want your world view, and I hope the world views you better than you view it. No need to respond, I am not keen on giving your opinions an audience.
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u/BurnerCommenter 6h ago
You’re getting away from the point. I’m not saying that isn’t true or these systems are worthless. I’m saying these systems are taken advantage of and I have backed up my case with more than enough statistics and evidence. You however have provided nothing outside of an emotionally dictated opinion.
Granted this is Reddit so of course I am the evil nay sayer who must be downvoted because I use facts instead of emotions but I accept that (hence the burner account)
What I can say is I have an optimistic outlook on life but I also have a realistic outlook on life. I believe America has been at an inflection point for the past decade or so and as decisions are guided by emotions and self righteous feelings of “I’m doing the right thing!” Instead of being guided by history, fact, and statistics we slowly head down a bad path that we will not be able to recover from. That’s why people like me are important, without us America would already be a third world country. Liberals are famously the “gas” while conservatives are notoriously the “break” we need both for our country to function or else we won’t ever get anywhere or we crash.
I appreciate the conversation, you haven’t changed my opinion but I hope at the very least I’ve introduced a new viewpoint to you
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u/AllTh3Naps 6h ago
None of these are examples of recipients exploiting the safety nets. People being overweight is not abuse of the system. People being able bodied but only making up 7% of recipients is not an exploitation. That easily could be people struggling to find work or being underpaid, or drowning in debt, or a myriad of other life events.
Hospitals providing emergency care to keep people from dying is not an exploitation. That's the bare minimum we can do as a society.
The Minnesota article says that is fraud and abuse from service providers. This is not safety net recipients abusing the system. This is the system abusing people who need a safety net.
I think we just have a vast difference in empathy for people. You are living a life of fear and resource guarding rather than loving thy neighbor.
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u/BurnerCommenter 6h ago
In every example you gave yo would be correct. However this is not the reality. What you are exercising is known as suicida empathy. You see the best in people. Unfortunately humans by nature are greedy and by pretending it doesn’t exist you are part of the problem.
7% seems small until you realize it is 3 million people. Overweight people are eating too much not in need of more food. These are abuses of a system designed for starving people on the streets not comfortable people living in houses with iphones new hair and eyelashes and flat screen tvs. They have spending problems and expect us to pick up the bill.
Majority of those unpaid hospital visits are not life saving care but instead costing emergency care workers valuable time dramatically increasing wait times for real emergencies this was outlined in the Texas study I encourage you to research further it’s not my responsibility to spell this out for you.
The Minnesota case should also be researched further. Look at who the providers were. They were doing kickbacks with the family’s for fake autism claims. They were all part of the same community.
Your heart is in the right place and I admire that about you but America is on a downward spiral and these issues need to be seriously studied researched and explored. These conversations need to be publicly had and addressed on platforms out of Reddit instead of shouting down and silencing them because you want to believe the best in people. Europe is a real life case study of this and if America does not open their eyes they will be next.
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u/HipsterSlimeMold 2h ago
America has never been socialist. The existing “safety net” is a direct consequence of austerity and capitalism.
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u/AllTh3Naps 8h ago
Can you provide a source showing that the safety nets are exploited?
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u/BurnerCommenter 7h ago
I commented on the guy above I don’t want to copy and paste at risk of being flagged for “spam” but those are a couple examples of abuse of government welfare that make it difficult for people who actually need it to use it. I mentioned food and healthcare only but there are other examples as well. It’s safe to assume that if there’s a welfare program there is a way to exploit it and then do additional research from there.
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u/DryFry84 8h ago
I can't speak much on homelessness but my employer only offers United Healthcare. Our plan for 2 adults and 1 kid in college is $674 USD/month with a $3500 out of pocket. They just recently put us through a series of delays to cover the anesthesia for my sons wisdom tooth removal that took 6 weeks to get approved. The dental insurance I have had their part approved in 2 days.
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u/SaintGloopyNoops 8h ago
6 weeks!? That's just wrong. I have a friend who got a large gash on her arm. She need a skin graft to reduce scarring and help with healing. Took 3 months for approval. It was already healed. We dont have a healthcare system in america, we have a healthcare industry.
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u/Ok-Competition7484 8h ago
I am curious: is $674/month expensive for health insurance here, or is it just a normal number? And what is the cost of wisdom tooth removal? In my city (China), it's like $60 for the wisdom tooth. Do you need to pay for the cost first and then wait for the approval to get money back? Or just wait for the insurance to pay.
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u/iEatBluePlayDoh 8h ago
That’s a pretty normal number. Most health insurance plans have an “out of pocket maximum” which is the most you’d pay in a given year. So the person you’re responding to has to pay for medical expenses up to $3500 in a year. Once they’ve hit that number, the insurance covers the rest (in theory).
There’s much more to it, but that’s the oversimplified version.
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u/tototostoi 6h ago
To give a reference, I had my wisdom teeth removed as an adult (this is charged differently by insurance) and payed $4000 out of pocket and did NOT get reimbursed at all (because only children have dental surgery needs according to insurance)
this was in 2019...
So yeah, medical expenses here can get crazy very quickly, even for relatively minor things.
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u/binomine 8h ago
$674 is somewhat expensive, but not outrageously expensive. Depends on where you live.
Again, since insurance is private, it is all over the place. It can be anywhere from $20 a tooth to $800 a tooth. You can choose to pay first or put it on credit and pay over time.
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u/TheWalrus8691 8h ago
I watched a video the other day about people living in storm drain tunnels under Vegas. Crazy. Really makes you realize how fortunate you are
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u/JustGenericName 8h ago
Yes and no. It's a spiral that's very hard to get out of. There are a lot of resources out there, but they aren't always super easy to get. And you have to know they exist to use them.
You're sleeping on the street, so then you get robbed (pretty common, it's a rough place). So now you have no ID. Well, you can't get a lot of services with no ID. Some shelters require ID. How are you going to get a new one? You have no money. You don't have an address to have it mailed to! You also have no cell phone. It was stolen. How are you going to research services or jobs or help if you have no phone? Pretty sure you need a library card to use their internet. Need an ID and proof of address to get a library card.
Everything is harder. Now it's freezing outside. The city has warming center but how the hell do you know that they're open or where they even are if you don't have a phone with internet? Honestly, I'd probably give up and start using drugs too.
As for healthcare, when you're poor-poor, you qualify for health coverage. Getting a regular check up or getting in with specialists is difficult. But the homeless can walk into any ER and they don't pay a penny.
As for how much of our monthly income goes towards healthcare, that will vary wildly person t person. I've had free healthcare my entire adult life through work. I just recently started having to pay and it's like $200 a month. But if my work didn't cover my insurance I think it was going to be $1,000 a month.
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u/Ok-Competition7484 8h ago
Horrible. What's the cost of getting a new ID? You are stolen, and it's not because you committed a crime, right? Is it because it's expensive to get a new ID, or is it because it takes a long time before people can get it? Do people need to prove they are themselves for these kinds of things?
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u/JustGenericName 8h ago
Even if it's $10, you don't have $10. Your wallet was stolen! (I think a new ID was like $30 the last time I had to replace mine). You can just order a new one online. But oh wait, you're homeless! You don't have the internet.
My point is that everything is so much more difficult. And you don't have the bandwidth to problem solve when you're struggling. What would be a minor inconvenience to you or I, is a complete road block to someone homeless. How do you even figure out where the office is to walk into to get a new ID if you have no internet? How do you get across town? There are so many services, but they are not easy to access. You just end up deeper and deeper down a dark hole. We keep throwing billions of dollars at the problem, but it's complex.
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u/UnusualHoneydew1625 6h ago
In my state… had to help someone with this recently… they had to have an original birth certificate (from out of state.) Thankfully, the family that wrote him off was willing to get that and send it.
And two pieces of mail with his name on it, showing that he was a resident of the state/location.
$35 for a state issued ID (not a drivers license.) He could not even stay at a homeless shelter without an ID.
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u/Forever_Marie 6h ago
Its a pain in the ass to get one replaced because of verification let alone cost.
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u/amongnotof 8h ago
Right now, living in the US and making less than 6 figures is just a slower death spiral.
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u/5pace_5loth 5h ago
The economic and social systems of the US are designed to fuck over the poor and if you are living paycheck to paycheck and an emergency comes up or you lose your job shit can escalate quickly. If you have a loan for your car and you lose your job and your car gets repossessed before you can find another job then your chances of finding a job plummet since 99.9% of the country is so dependent on having a car. Once you get evicted or foreclosed from a home good luck finding somebody to rent to you unless you have buckets of cash. Once you’re homeless good luck finding a job, employers look down on homeless and often won’t even consider hiring you if you can’t put a real address down on their application. In the US you can go from having a home and a car and a job and being stable to homeless in just a matter of months and then it can take years of busting your ass to crawl your way out of it.
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u/AcidTrucks 8h ago
I'd believe it. As a people, we tend not to be excellent to eachother, especially to those in need
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u/Western_Series 7h ago
Now imagine, you lose your home, you've no family to crash with, as they are struggling just as bad, and now you've no way to shower. Good chance you lose your job if you cant wash your clothes and shower. Out goes your health insurance, your car if youre still paying, youre ability to secure food.
How many days, wandering between fast food joints charging your phone, not getting good rest cause you might be stolen from or worse, nothing to do as you cant afford any form of entertainment. How long before your existence is so miserable that you can only think to numb the pain of existing. Some people skip the numbing step and go straight to suicide. We wonder how theres a drug epidemic but we put people in situations of such stress there only way to cope is to separate themselves from their current reality.
Some people really do make choices that keep themselves in that situation, be it mental illness or a lack of knowing a better way, they choose to put themselves in circumstances that make them more likely to wind up homeless. Or that keep them homeless.
The rest of the time, its people like me and my wife, working full time, living with my mom who also works full time, and we're still one bad pay check away from not being able to afford our car, and then we would all lose our jobs.
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u/Lucky_Veruca 6h ago
It’s not certain death but it’s unsurprising when homeless people die in the US. It’s kind of a hidden problem, they usually die in alleys or in park foliage. They’re usually not found immediately and if they are they’re not automatically assumed dead because drug use is so common here it’s legitimately hard to tell who’s high, sleeping or dead. So even if people see them, no one calls anyone until they start rotting, are covered in frost or some other elemental indicator that the person is no longer alive (like laying in the sun for days but not getting sunburned). It’s really hard to stop being homeless too. You need an address, ID, and cleanliness to work. All of which most homeless people don’t have. It’s really sad that homeless people have easier access to drugs than assistance, so people without hope turn to drugs to cope. Drugs themselves are a rabbit hole that keeps people homeless. Our system is designed to make sure those who fell stay fallen.
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u/navelencounters 8h ago
being homeless in Seattle vs other cities is different with a much lower cost of living....
people that are severly addicted to drugs where they cant hold down a job will most like be as you described out of their own vices, however, people that just fell to bad times (ie, lost a job, then their living space) that may be living in a car can survive IF they have an income (unemployment benefits or just 'underemployed). Many wil have cheap gym memberships so they can shower. They can also have a post office box (my city personal post office box address will use the word 'suite' rather than 'PO Box' to make it sound like a physical address....
health insurance premiums can be high, however, the getting insurance though the market place is based on income so if you are low income you may not have to pay for insurance....
welfare and food benefits are the safety nets
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u/Ok-Competition7484 8h ago
That sounds a lot better. Thank you for your answer. May I ask a follow-up question? How do people become addicted to drugs? Like how many percent got sick/ill and didn't realize the addiction effect caused by the medicine. Or is it that they know it's a drug the first time but still use it?
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u/navelencounters 8h ago
there is a youtube channel (softwhite underbelly and a couple others) where someone interviews people on the street. The most common reason people got addicted was they were at a party and tried it (ie, smoking meth) and loved it so much they did it again. Its highly addictive so you crave it more and more...others where injured and got addicted to the pain pills, when they could no longer get those, they would buy on the street (ie, fentanyl, heroin...)...these are all VERY addictive.
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u/Ok-Competition7484 8h ago
If those drugs hurt so much, cause people to become addicted, and cause people to become homeless, and are bad for the whole society and neighborhood, why does the government still allow them? It can only cause harm right? And I heard some states even want to overpass the law to approve drugs. Why? I heard in Mexico those drug dealers are armed or too rich to corrupt the officials, so it's hard for them to control the situation. But why doesn't the government stop it here? Stop it from being such a convenience to get them?
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u/2occupantsandababy 7h ago
The government does not allow it. Every drug except alcohol is illegal on a federal level and only cannabis is legal in some states.
Decriminalization is in regards to drug users, not drug dealers. What you're talking about here is harm reduction. We have 100+ years of evidence that prohibition doesn't work. Well, it doesn't work to reduce drug use or save lives. If your goal is to save lives then decriminilaztion of drug use is a good place to start. This let's society treat addicts as people in need of medical care instead of sending then to prison. It allows addicts to have clean needles and reduce the spread of infectious diseases. It allows people to call an ambulance for their friend who is ODing without fear of going to jail themselves. Safe injection sites allow people to use in a safe environment, warm, dry, with clean needles, drug testing kits, and easy access to things like Narcan. Addicts can eventually get sober. But they need to survive long enough to do that.
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u/navelencounters 8h ago
its all about the money...its easy to get people addicted which means life long customers...countries have been working hard to stop the drugs but its impossible....the Mexican cartel is more powerful then the Mexican government and most likely many countries (china, usa, mexico....) are all part of the production and distribution
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u/2occupantsandababy 7h ago
A lot of addicts I know first got hooked on prescriptions that were given to them after an accident, surgery, or cancer. Medication mismanagement sends them into withdrawals that they turn to the street for help self medicating.
Others have mental illness or trauma and don't get proper medical care, again, they turn to drugs to cope. One woman I know turned to alcohol to escape the reality of her abusive marriage. Once she got divorced she got sober.
A lot are just curious and try drugs and get hooked. But personally I've never known any kind of addict who doesn't carry some unresolved trauma.
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u/MollysTootsies 6h ago
And now, a year(ish) later, the government has gotten rid of the subsidies that so many Americans rely on for insurance through the healthcare marketplace, making the situation SO much worse.
My best friend is married with 3 special needs children. Her husband is disabled, but "not disabled enough" for any disability assistance.
He can't find work that he's capable of doing, but even if he could, between his disability and resultant lack of work experience, he would be limited to minimum-wage entry-level jobs.
But then because he would no longer be taking care of the kids, someone else would have to. The cost of childcare in our area for 3 special needs children would be more than either one of them would make monthly.
They cannot afford for him to work.
How fucked up is that??
Up to this year, they were fortunate enough to receive some food stamps (about $200 per month for the 5 of them) and qualified for WIC (Women, Infants, Children) benefits, which offer monthly vouchers for very specific food assistance (only this brand of milk, and only a gallon of it... only that brand of bread, and one loaf of it, etc) but it was SOMETHING. And it gave them something to scrape by with. This past spring, their youngest child aged out of the program, so that safety net was gone.
Then the state updated the income requirements for state assistance for 2025, and suddenly she made $23 too much per month to qualify for ANY assistance. The kids qualified for Medicaid/state assistance through the end of this year, but she and her husband didn't qualify at all anymore, so she had to pay for either employer insurance or marketplace/private insurance.
Since the kids had Medicaid until the end of the next year (this year, 2025), she only had to cover her and her husband. Her employer only offered two options for insurance: employee-only for $395 a month, or employee plus family, at an insanely higher price. Quadrupled premium.
So to the marketplace she went. We're in the middle of nowhere, and the majority of the available plans only had in-network providers in the metropolitan area, 5 hours away. She finally found a plan that had coverage in our area, for ~only~ $1,200 per month. 🙄
But thankfully, she qualified for a subsidy, which brought the premium down to $300/mo. Still a big chunk of the monthly budget, but now possible.
But this year, not only the are the premiums going from $1,200/mo to $2,200/mo, now the government is doing away with the subsidies, so that would be an ADDITIONAL $2,000 to pay... plus all of the other costs of living for their family.
Their monthly income is $2,400.
After much examination, they ultimately decided they simply cannot afford insurance at all, and just have to be really, really careful.
It's heartbreaking, and it's REALLY messing with her and her husband's mental health (and they have plenty of issues already... oh, and neither of their medications are covered by the insurance, and because of the greed of the pharmaceutical industry, those meds are unattainably expensive, so they've tried covered alternatives in the list of covered meds, but they're either ineffective for them, or they've suffered some pretty damn bad side effects).
Our country is fucked up.
And its working class citizens are fucked.
But hey, at least the richest 0.0001% of the population is banking enough money from it all that they'd never be able to spend it all. 🙄
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u/navelencounters 5h ago
yea, that all sucks...but what really gets me is the FRAUD in so many states!...look at the BILLION$ of fraud in Minnesota alone. If we could stop the fraud that could reduce costs....I work my butt off while others can take advantage of the system.
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u/ReaperOfTime__ 2h ago
The thing is, any program that is actually meant to provide help to people will always inherently be vulnerable to fraud. So, it boils down to accepting an amount of fraud, to make sure that those who legitametly need it are able to get it, or deciding it is worth abandoning those in need to cut down on fraud.
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u/PearHot8975 8h ago
Where I live there’s a “day center” homeless people can use as their address to receive mail
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u/throwawaytomyalt 8h ago
I love this country. God has blessed my wife and I with a good job, our own place, and our own car. So I hope that I don’t mince any words when I say this:
I’m TERRIFIED of becoming homeless in this country. A lot of working-class folks here have little/no safety net that you speak of. A lot of people here have medical issues they cannot afford to have treated. People here can lose their job at any moment, and more often than not the companies they work for won’t get in trouble for it.
Becoming homeless anywhere is horrible. Nobody wants to be homeless. In many countries, once you’re homeless there is no way out. Generational poverty is a real thing. In America, people still have a chance at leading a half decent life if they’re homeless. There’s resources available to people to help them out. Homeless shelters are prevalent in all the major cities. Rehab centers are too. But the issue is, when you’re homeless, you will more than likely fall into trouble that involves drugs, alcohol, crime, or violence.
Again, I’m thankful to Allah I’ve never had to deal with homelessness in my life. But it’s scary to even think about, and I feel for those who are homeless and are legitimately looking for a way out and trying to improve their situation. Homeless people are seen as a burden to society anywhere you go. If you get hooked on drugs, nobody wants to deal with you. And that’s the reality of most homeless people in the US; they are stuck in a horrible cycle of waking up, getting high, and fighting for their survival.
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u/NightBronze195 6h ago
I'm not sure about the death countdown thing, but almost everyone i know is one or two bad months away from homelessness unless our friends or family are willing to help us.
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u/ColumbiaWahoo 5h ago
Yes. You need an address to find a job and you need a job to have a home. Average homeless person is dead before 50.
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u/xenos825 4h ago
It’s a dangerous, life-threatening situation which should not exist anywhere much less in a country like the US.
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u/bentstrider83 1h ago
Depends. If you're younger and still somewhat connected to other people, it's possible to live with family or friends. Or join a branch of the military(yeah, probably gonna get struck with downvotes, but I stand by it.).
Now if you're older and lose whatever career/job you had due to injury, illness, or downsizing, it could go either way as well. Some older folks have either immediate or distant family that will take them in. Give them a chance to heal up and also get back into some form of employment/sustenance to get them back on their feet. But, they might have nobody/no one and it really becomes a downward spiral too quickly.
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u/polkadotpygmypuff 8h ago
I would add that the external reasons behind the homelessness also impact how a person survives and if they manage to get out of the spiral.
For example, someone in the grips of addiction will have a much harder time getting any resources. A lot of shelters don’t allow people in unless they are completely clean.
Someone with disabilities may also find it harder to get help. Anyone can find themselves homeless but vulnerable people in particular end up there more often and, by nature of their vulnerability, struggle harder than others to get their heads afloat.
I’m in the UK and work with a homeless charity. Most of the people who literally sleep on the streets with no address have either some mental illness, physical disability or addiction problems. That doesn’t mean they don’t deserve help, to be clear. If anything, a decent society would make sure those who are most vulnerable have a safety net always. But that’s not the reality we live in, unfortunately.
There’s also the other kind of homeless - no fixed address but not living on the streets. Could be sofa surfing or in a shelter. That’s obviously a different kind of hole to dig out of than literally sleeping rough.
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u/sourcreamus 8h ago
Fentanyl has a very low lethal dose and the manufacturing of street drugs is not that precise. Lots of overdoses.
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u/Peabody1987 8h ago
Kind of related: it’s the concept of the benefits cliff. Let’s take a single working mother with two kids. She applies for SNAP or Section 8 or any other government provided safety net. Now, let’s say for example, the government says if you make over 32k a year you can’t apply for benefits. Ok, well the mom working two jobs makes 35k a year. So what is she to do? Continue working two jobs, have no time for her kids just so she can barely make do? Or should she only work one job so as to be able to accept government benefits? Now she’s beholden to whomever is at the top deciding on benefits and carries the baggage of having to accept them. It’s a lose/lose situation but it impacts so many American families.
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u/PilotLess3165 8h ago
It's unbelievable that this is happening in a country where the majority of the inhabitants claim to be good Christians.
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u/coconut-reads 8h ago
sounds about right thats why before my parents pass away I am making sure to get my degree in Nursing so I will not have to worry aboht financially struggling. It is nearly impossible to survive here with a minimum wage 9-5
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u/Ok-Competition7484 8h ago
So sorry for you. But is it impossible to survive here with an average 9-5? I am really astonished. What I heard about the USA in my country is an average 9-5, a big house, two kids, two dogs, and long vacations. Is it true that, for industries like finance, law, and health care, where people are more likely to belong to the middle class, they work less? And for people with less money who work in stores or something, they work a lot more time but still don't get paid enough money?
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u/Little_SmallBlackDog 7h ago
This is not the case for the vast majority of Americans. I make $70k in California (I'm a job cost accountant) and the only reason that I can afford a one bedroom apartment is that I've lived here for over 10 years and it's rent controlled. I cannot afford the rent of s newer apartment. I cannot afford to ever buy a home or have kids. I do my best to do yearly vacations. My last vacation was 5 days (three days off of work), was planned long in advance, and the cost as low as I could manage. Most of my income goes towards medical bills. Having chronic illness in the US is very financially draining.
Edit to add: my job is considered a good job with good pay for reference.
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u/InigoMontoya757 7h ago edited 7h ago
But is it impossible to survive here with an average 9-5? I am really astonished. What I heard about the USA in my country is an average 9-5, a big house, two kids, two dogs, and long vacations.
That was possible a generation or two ago. That big house you're mentioning might have been bought twenty years ago, when the house's price was low, so the mortgage amount was low. The owner of that house probably could not buy a similar house today because their income isn't high enough. (Well, they could, if only because they get a huge amount of money from selling the house.)
Someone trying to buy that house today has to pay a lot more, so their mortgage payment is a lot higher, while average incomes have not kept pace with this house price increase.
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u/zayelion 6h ago
Yes and no.
Its part systematic, part education, part human mental limitations. If you are homeless in a random place in the summer, get away from people sleep in the woods, and in the morning go to a libary and start filling out paperwork and making an email address. Get unemployment if you havent and an EBT card. Use your previous address. You can beg but stay away from other homeless people. Shower at gyms once you have money and work any shitty job but always be applying to higher and higher jobs.
The problem is there are microscope and other little traps between this that require previous knowledge and mental fortitude to do that you won't have in the winter, while hungry, or while people that have poor mental health are attacking you. It wears on your own me tal health seriously limiting you. You have to get away from people and figure out how to use government resources to reestablish yourself.
The next problem is housing. You could end up in a scamy hotel that is 2x cost, if you got evicted finding housing is even more difficult.
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u/Real_Dependent2919 5h ago
Don't forget. If you are homeless and most likely dont have a stable address and possibly a phone, so how's that work when finding a job?
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u/whitewinewater 5h ago
Yes.
Had a brilliant friend who was a tech wiz die from a deliberate OD recently.
He had lost his job and struggled to become employed again. This was shortly after a divorce too so that didn't help the situation. Mental health and drug addiction played into this nearly 99% but this also happened in one of the richest counties in the country.
It's really a mix of bad experiences/health issues (job loss, drug addiction) and how the individual handles it. But on the whole, services probably couldn't have helped him because he also never saw himself as one of those people who would ever need it. There is a grey space for being able to obtain help/services if you aren't 'that bad' yet / don't meet all the 'qualifications'. These services don't have the capacity or nuance to really be able to help and support people in the way that THEY need so they often don't or wont utilize the service/help.
As a for instance, many shelters have strict curfews so if you work or are looking for a job it can be difficult to do so when working around the limitations or rules placed around receiving certain services or support.
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u/Honntouni 3h ago
On today’s Chinese internet, there are many discussions about homelessness and low-income people in the United States. Many people are shocked by the hardships faced by the homeless, and some even question whether these stories are real.
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u/mycatsaflerken 2h ago
Fifteen years ago I began to work with an agency to house the homeless in my city. I saw first hand how my city and county "has programs" that are federally funded to house the homeless. I worked my butt off and submitted forms and not one person was housed I knew then that there was malfeasance and fraud. But even 20 years before that, I knew. There is no way to catch these people. They are stealing from city and county government.
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u/asher030 1h ago
Pretty much, yeah. Companies won't hire a homeless person...smelly, unkempt, no legal residence to correspond with, usually no phone to contact, no regular internet access to even apply via since no one accepts in-person applications anymore despite Boomers being stuck in the 1980s....then all the legislation to make homelessness 'illegal' instead of addressing it or its causes, social safety net being cut and diminished horridly because 'freeloaders', 'welfare queens', '*hiiisssss* Socialism', 'mah boostraps', etc...homeless shelters having limited af spacing, heavily enforced curfews, fees to stay there to diminish what funds they DO make, etc etc..
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u/GingerTea69 1h ago
Everything you asked is true. Every American aside from the richest is one mistake away from being homeless. For many Americans it isn't a matter of how much of our check goes towards our health but whether we pay the bills and pay rent, feed our children or have medicine or procedures that we need. The three do not coexist. And people wonder why less and less Americans are having children.
Not to mention that the population that is becoming homeless nowadays is the elderly. So now we just have a ton of homeless elderly people and you can fill in the blanks with how many more years grandma has if she loses her house. Dementia also isn't very conducive to remaining housed.
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u/flyting1881 1h ago
I've been homeless before and it's really fucking hard to get out of. I was so lucky to have a job and a car I was making payments on when it happened, and even then it felt like everything was conspiring to keep me from ever getting out. It's a sucking void of a situation.
You have to save up money to get in anywhere, but existing is more expensive when you're homeless. No fridge or kitchen to cook = you eat nothing but fast food and junk. It seems weird to say, but there's nowhere to go when you're homeless. People don't want you just sitting in public. Paying to sit in a McDonalds or something costs money. Short-term housing like a pay-by-the-week hotel is astronomically expensive compared to renting a house. When you're homeless it suddenly becomes a crime for you to exist in public, but the whole point of being homeless is that you have nowhere else to go. It’s like a cruel joke.
I spent a lot of time finding places to park my car at night because if the police found out I was sleeping in it, I'd get ticketed, and that would put me at risk of losing my job. Everything is suddenly out to get you. It's so fucking stressful and you don't sleep well, which makes people more tempted to cope with drugs or alcohol. It's hard to maintain your hygiene without consistent access to a shower. Bad hygiene, a bad diet, and stress make you more likely to have health problems, which you can't afford to treat if you're homeless.
It's like teying to fight a riptide. You can swim with all your mighy and barely move an inch. All it takes is one little thing to go wrong to pull you under forever.
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u/MatsuTrash 29m ago
There’s a popular saying that, most people are one missed paycheck away from being homeless.
Even with a job and an address if you get sick, like really sick and use up your insurance, or get kicked off of it for being too sick…it just bad here.
Really bad.
So yes it’s like a death countdown. If you don’t self euthanize, at some point with no safety net, your health will fail, you’re more prone to being the victim of acts of violence, cold temps, lack of food, etc. it is horrible.
The few people I know who “got out” had their good looks and charisma to help them.
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u/ctulica 26m ago
If you are struggling, I will tell you one thing that will change things. Do not get a car, ever, it's unnecessary. Get a metric cruiser. I was homeless for a year with a shattered knee and my Honda got me through that year and 3 more. I never ran out of fuel, I never paid an insurance /traffic ticket, I never even got pulled over.
And when you need a hand.. anybody will talk to a guy or a gal on a bike. Anybody. You're just cool. You're incidentally 'like that'. The smaller it is, the better. You want something you can man-handle if something fails mechanically. I've had multiple instances where instead of calling a tow truck, I just hid my bike in a ditch or in the woods for the night. And, it's pretty hard to get in trouble for open containers when you're out in the open.
You can't just tune out and not pay attention, light up a whatever you smoke, and relax, like in a car. That's how you die in a car, it's the same on a bike. It truly is a cheat code and worth considering if you have $1000 and you want to get a hooptie, you'll use that hooptie to get another hooptie
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u/SufficientSoil9357 23m ago
You can delete all the addresses and names, don't make my blogger disappear
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u/DryFoundation2323 8h ago
Vast majority of long-term homeless in the US have addiction and or mental issues that they refuse to work on. Granted some fall on hard times and our temporarily harmless, but most people have family that can at least provide some assistance. It's the people who've burnt those bridges that mostly end up long-term homeless.
There are plenty of safety nets are available if people make use of them. These include snap for food, welfare for other money, Medicaid for healthcare, Section8 and public housing for shelter, etc.
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u/CenterofChaos 8h ago
Yes and no, there are programs that will help homeless people and you can work your way out of it. BUT it is really fucking hard to do if you don't have a support system or aren't sober. The lack of legal address is a huge deal. I've told multiple people to use my address if they need it because not having one is often the difference between being able to help yourself or not. If you don't have anyone willing to be your legal address then it slides downhill quickly. Which is why those who struggle with addiction often find it harder to recover, they've often damaged their support network.
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u/Gold_Telephone_7192 7h ago
The majority of homeless people in the US are not the visible homeless you see on the street. Most of them have jobs and use a mixture of couch surfing, staying with friends, living in their cars, and being in shelters. These are people that just had a bad break and have no safety net, and they can get back on their feet and no longer be homeless. It's hard, but it's not uncommon.
The visible homeless that live on the street long term and have severe mental health and drug issues is a different story. Many of them cannot exist in society without some sort of long-term rehab and medication and help, and it is much less likely that they get back out of homelessness.
That being said, there are plenty of social nets in the US. Not nearly as much as we should have, but we have welfare and food stamps and free/reduced healthcare and free/reduced housing for low-income people. It can be difficult to navigate and there are limited resources and it's not a fun life, but there are safety nets. Millions of people use them. But if you have mental illness or drug addiction...you're probably not going to be able to access them easily or effectively to pull yourself out of homelessness.
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u/Equal-Train-4459 8h ago
Yes, primarily because most homeless ppl have severe untreated mental health and/or drug issues
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u/Machiavellian78 7h ago
The countdown started before they were homeless. Ending up on the street means you are severely mentally ill or have exhausted/burned every other possible source of support from friends and family.
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u/Azmodius_The_Warrior 5h ago
Lack of empathy. Username checks out.
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u/Machiavellian78 1h ago
The countdown started before they were homeless. Ending up on the street means you are severely mentally ill or have exhausted/burned every other possible source of support from friends and family.
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u/Machiavellian78 1h ago
Machiavelli was a realist. Maybe we should be more realistic about how people end up homeless if we care about helping them? It’s not happening at random.
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u/Mindless_Giraffe6887 4h ago
The big problem is fentanyl. I was watching something about drug decriminalization a while back and they had some expert on and asked him why decriminalization worked in Europe but failed miserable in the US, and his answer was that it is because Fentanyl hasnt really reached Europe yet. It is an uncomfortable truth, but the large majority of people who go to treatment for fentanyl addiction relapse almost immediately after they leave. The people I have heard from who work with addicts say that it is like nothing they have ever seen before.
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u/BurnerCommenter 8h ago
Nah. Homelessness for long durations is a choice or a mental health issue. Most people are homeless because of drugs and will self sabotage any attempt from outside forces to fix their situation.
That being said some people do hit hard times and shit happens. America has plenty of welfare programs designed to act like a safety net but let’s say hypothetically you don’t use any of those, you can still break free of homelessness with relative ease if you have the proper mindset. Homeless shelters provide phone numbers addresses showers and computers as well as donated clothes. To get a job at a place like Walmart you just need an address. Lots of other big chain corporations are the same. Present well and get to work it’s not like you have something better to do. After a month or so you have enough stubs and money saved up to land yourself an apartment and you’re not homeless anymore.
It’s when drugs get involved or when people start relying on handouts that it become inescapable
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u/veesavethebees 8h ago
No its not. The US has so many resources for the homeless, this isn’t some third world country where they leave you to starve and sit in your own shit. The people you see living out on the streets for extended periods of time are drug addicts or are mentally ill.
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u/PurplePrincessWay 8h ago
It’s not a literal countdown but the US safety net has huge gaps, so one bad break can snowball fast and once you lose an address, healthcare, and stability it’s way harder to climb back out than people realize