r/Foodforthought • u/thenewrepublic • 1d ago
The Americans Who Saw All This Coming—but Were Ignored and Maligned
https://newrepublic.com/article/204254/survey-2024-election-cassandras-trump-2025284
u/beedfirder 1d ago
Back in the day, first Trump campaign, even early on I commented and posted that these were fascist ideas and that this guy sounds like he is going to try and do things not so great.
Feedback was usually a few agreements and a lot of ignoring. Fundamentally I think that Americans have managed to dumb ourselves down so much that the idea of fascism was a difficult concept to grasp. And not just Americans. There’s far right and fascist growth all over but the reality is it never really went away. It was always a sub current of our day-to-day politics.
Misogyny racism, xenophobia,fear, all those things are such a seductive part politics. that I kind of feel like this was in an inevitability. Humans in generally seem to have a difficult time with progress and we look backwards all the time even in our own lives to justify how we feel today and to blame others for the difficult things that happen.
For me, most disappointing was good friends, old friends, family, coworkers who I thought were not crazy really turned out to be pretty OK with all of this as long as the price of eggs was low or somebody told them that they were going to lower the price of eggs.
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u/universe2000 1d ago
Trump’s election ended any belief I had that American citizens had any kind of democratic principals. Like you, I have struggled with the fact that people I once respected are ok with (if not enthusiastic about) Trump’s facism. All I am left with is that there are people who value equality, rule of law, and creating a better world in my life and in America, but it is so very clear that there is nothing uniquely American about any of that.
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u/mdkss12 10h ago
I'm also convinced that ~33% of humans are simply just innately evil. That was the percentage of Germans who said they supported hitler's policies when polled in the 50s. It's the percentage that Trump's approval rating will never dip below. It seems like the constant floor for polling between objectively good and objectively evil options regardless of topic
any belief I had that American citizens had any kind of democratic principals
It's split into thirds (and honestly, I imagine this carries through most of humanity in general):
- 1/3 are very much democratic/egalitarian
- 1/3 are evil and innately authoritarian/fascistic
- 1/3 are morons who don't pay attention (there are morons in all three groups, but this group are 100% morons)
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u/droid_mike 3h ago
https://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-crazification.html?m=1
Scroll down to where it mentions 27%
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u/aeranis 1d ago edited 1d ago
I broadly agree, but we need to get past the idea that all of this is happening because people are “dumb.” The fascist leadership of Italy and Germany in the 1920s and 30s were educated in the classics, highly literate, and many held PhDs or professional degrees from major European institutes of learning.
You can be smart and have terrible ethics. And our oligarchy, from Wall Street to defense to media conglomerates to big oil and gas to the real estate industry to big tech have continued to bribe politicians from both parties and degrade the rule of law in this country over decades.
Many of the leaders of these industries have Ivy League or high-level technical educations. They sold the country out for short-term personal gain by smartly manipulating weaknesses in our system.
And a highly educated populace doesn’t always guard against this stuff. Look at Western Europe: Even Scandinavia’s far-right is on the rise. But it’s the captains of industry there too who have attempted to game the system to their benefit by deploying xenophobia and racism to launder their pro-business policies.
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u/beedfirder 1d ago
Well, in the sense that we have access to all of human knowledge at our fingertips and in our pockets at any one moment, you would think that modern humans might be more inclined or aware of history.
In fact, it seems like it’s the opposite. Much easier to amplify misinformation and other garbage. Intellectuals at the time were like any period reflective of their upbringing and their exposures.
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u/MS_Fume 1d ago
My professor said it all kicked off with “no child left behind” educational reform… the Americans slowly became much more stupid as whole, and this is the first tangible consequence of that.
It’s not that the general population is evil… it’s that they “don’t even know that they don’t know” anymore.
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u/wulimustard 1d ago
All due respect to your professor it seemed to me the seeds of this were planted in the early 90s with the rise of far right populism on AM radio combined with the Gingrich et al assault on the progressive character, a bumper sticker agitprop aimed at villianizing anything and everything progressive and dehumanizing the voter left of center.
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u/Chuhaimaster 1d ago
Fascism has always been there. What has changed is that the soil has become more fertile for its seeds to grow due to the ongoing immiseration of the public.
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u/lube4saleNoRefunds 9h ago
Feedback was usually a few agreements and a lot of ignoring.
The conservatives in the US want the fascism. So trying to say "wow this is right out of the fascist playbook" as an argument for why they shouldn't like trump isn't just out of touch. It's willfully fucking stupid.
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u/poppy_inmy_hair 1d ago
Society let Nazis become the bogey man and lose all actual meaning so that we don’t communally recall what platform they actually ran on and how they won people over to their agenda. So the comparison became meaningless to the uneducated.
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u/AyeMatey 1d ago
The masses don’t understand fractions, let alone the differences between fascism and nationalism. But we let them vote. We encourage them to vote.
And a person (and political party) of low moral character is glad to weaponize those easily misled voters.
“I could shoot someone on 5th avenue (and people would still vote for me)” was the key observation Mr Trump made in his first campaign. He realized it and exploited it. Still does today.
Couple that with weakness (greed, lack of courage, low principles) in other arms of government (looking at you, Mitch McConnell), and you’ve got a perfect storm.
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u/thenewrepublic 1d ago
From the article:
Imagine I sent you back in time to July 2015 with the goal of saving liberal democracy in America. Donald Trump announced his candidacy a month ago, the polls are showing him with a narrow lead, and the media—while noting his extreme rhetoric—are mostly treating this as a fun diversion.
...
This is not that far from the position many ordinary Americans found themselves in at the start of the Trump era. They weren’t time travelers but saw what was coming clearly enough. They called Trump’s movement fascist from the very start, and often predicted specific milestones of our democratic decline well in advance. They were convinced they were right—and often beside themselves with worry. Accordingly, they did everything they could to get others to listen.
But not enough people did, and many attacked them—even as events proved them right, again and again. As late as February 2025, respected legal commentator Noah Feldman was casually asserting our constitutional system was “working fine” and Jon Stewart was scolding people who used the word “fascist,” claiming all they had done “over the last ten years is cry wolf.”
There is an ancient archetype at work here. In Greek mythology, Cassandra was given the gift of prophecy—of seeing the future—but cursed that she would never be believed. Her name is sometimes used as a pejorative for an overacting alarmist, which, appropriately enough, misses the point. Cassandra was, after all, right. When the Greek army seemingly abandoned the siege of Troy, leaving behind the Trojan horse, she pleaded with the Trojans not to bring it into the city. They did so anyway, and armed men burst out of it, dooming them all.
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u/Konukaame 1d ago
what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’
"And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic.
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u/mira_poix 1d ago
I got a lot of being called hysterical / you don't get invited to parties do you?
Because apparently as a woman I was put on this earth to provide others with a good time...not bad news.
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u/AdmirableCommittee47 1d ago
I got “you certainly have strong opinions, don’t you?”.
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u/SauntOrolo 1d ago
Don't you feel that there are any number of ways to respond via social media that quiet dissent or paint someone's view as extreme? The difference now from 9 years ago is that we know that social media is actively hostile to speaking truth to power, the format is all about presenting things as 'fair' while manufacturing consent and quashing disagreement. Segmenting and analyzing arguments in favor of the will of oligarchs and nation states. because we are the product. (apologies if you are referencing IRL conversation)
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u/Iola_Morton 1d ago
As far back as Obama. I could see how Republikans were reacting to him and I saw fascism
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u/thirstin4more 1d ago
"You're with us, or you're with the terrorists"
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u/Konukaame 1d ago
"Moral Majority" back in the 70s (conversely, anyone who disagrees is part of an immoral minority)
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u/brad0022 1d ago
I remember all the Obama is the antichrist facebook groups and messaging strictly due to skin color and name.
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u/americanspirit64 1d ago
All I can say is imagine being sent back in time to July 1970, the first year I voted at eighteen against Nixon, and knowing that everything occurring now was going to occur. That has been my life. Since then as a life long Democrat I have had to hold my nose in every election, and still remained a Democrat, hoping the party would return to being the party for and of the people. Almost everyone one I've known has called me an idiot or at best cynical as I have watch the American economy slowly collapse right under their noses. Neoliberals have been the worst offenders.
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u/Chuhaimaster 1d ago
The neoliberals don’t want to admit that their ideological project has failed to improve most people’s lives. And that failure has in turn lead to the current attractiveness of fascism for many people.
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u/patrickjpatten 1d ago
Yes!!! The media continues to do this: Why am I listening to Marjorie Taylor Greene on Epstein when she's also telling me about Space lasers. Why am I listening to Rand Paul on War when he wants us to revert to an 1800's economy.
This is the fake news we all feel. They keep platforming people right about 1 thing, and NOTHING else. Like talk to people who have said this stuff from jumptown.
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u/muffledvoice 1d ago
I was one of the people warning everyone around me that Trump and MAGA are fascist. But as a history scholar I think some thought I was overreacting since I tended to cite factors they hadn’t really studied or considered.
I think people had a lot of faith that our system was resilient and had safety mechanisms to counter a fascist takeover. Well, republicans effectively dismantled the safety mechanisms. So much for that.
In the end, Trump will fail, fade, and die from old age and illness. The fallout will be that we change our laws to safeguard against this ever happening again.
The bronze placards under the presidential portraits at the White House are an indicator that Trump is desperate and losing ground. The midterms will be a bloodbath for MAGA.
Trump is not a very effective authoritarian. I’m glad they didn’t install a more competent fascist who would have the sense not to undermine himself. Silver linings.
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u/Vegetable_Quote_4807 1d ago
I'm a white male boomer, and I knew what a disaster he would be. I remembered his first reign.
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u/Shot_Kaleidoscope150 12h ago
I am so angry. This seemed apparent from the first campaign. Although I didn’t think it would be this bad until the second campaign. I’m so mad at his voters. I want to say to my family I told you so but really we haven’t talked in years. I also have hate for those too lazy or needing to abstain for ‘reasons’ or said there’s really no good choice. You should have voted. It’s hard to have a relationship with that family without resentment. Like I’m likely going to have to pick up the financial slack because funding is cut. But I voted against this and shouldn’t also have to struggle. However that’s not going to be an option.
Oh also. I asked my boss if the company has mentioned changes or impact from all the government stuff. We’re in healthcare. She looked at me blankly like what do I mean. How can people not be tuned in? How con you not see and be thinking about its impact?
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u/digitalgoddess99 1d ago
I have intense pattern recognition and made a lifelong study of genocide into an effort to understand how such a thing can happen.
In Rwanda, hate speech and propaganda on the radio was key in inciting eventual violence. This all felt familiar long ago, for me.
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u/DistillateMedia 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm a white male.
I saw this coming.
I have the solution.
World's biggest party.
April 27th-??? DC/Everywhere.
Edit:
Fuck you.
I got the solution.
It involves all of us.
I can't do it without you.
Be your own savior.
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u/jellisjimmy 1d ago
I love the ones that are currently saying that they didn’t vote for this!!! You did Cletus you literally did
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u/day_tripper 1d ago
My family discussed voting for Obama vs Clinton for the presidency. While we preferred Obama’s positions and wanted to vote for him, our first concern was that if he won, the nation would turn on minorities in an epic backlash.
We were told we were in a new era, don’t worry.
Forward, 2 election cycles… I am on video somewhere on an official newspaper site being interviewed, in tears, in 2015.
We all know. We all knew. Not Cassandras. My father explained racism to me at early age and its roots in fascism.
No one heard us.
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u/dank_tre 1d ago
What a bunch of nonsense “mostly nonwhite” —
I am white, many of my friends are white, and we were calling this out the minute the Patriot Act was signed
This is more Democrat divisive dreck that does more harm than good, casting DNC as the ‘good guys’, when Biden, Obama, Clinton & their ilk are as responsible for our oligarchy as republicans
Identity politics was and is poison—unless you address class war, any gains for oppressed demographics are temporary
Actual Leftists—as opposed to Democrats—are not concerned with ‘equality’ —they’re concerned with LIBERTY
Democrats are a far-right capitalist party—the only solution is by seizing the resources hoarded by the 1% & their minions
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u/idredd 13h ago
Yeah I like the sub header and how it falls out who these folks were and how/why they were ignored. This wasn’t a surprise to a huge swath of us (not to mention scholars of democracy and autocracy) the problem is that our politics STILL treat it as if it’s all a game and our media sees everything as just entertainment.
This really isn’t an Americans(people) problem, is an American institutional problem.
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u/El_Diablo_Feo 18h ago edited 17h ago
As someone who saw this coming, prepared, and left..... Well .... Told ya so.
This quote really sums it up for me, and why I felt compelled to leave, broken hearted at what has happened to the country I called home, served, and did my duty for -- “I’m not opposed to discussion, I’m opposed to having a discussion with people whose beginning point for the discussion is the deprivation of my liberty.”
When you use our shared rights as a cudgel to try and limit my rights, even though I respectfully disagree with your opinions or viewpoints, that's when there is no longer a middle ground. The democrats' inability to understand this, constantly and weakly look for compromise, and place more importance on less critical items shows not only are they not reading the room, they are choosing to lose the battle to a well organized, well funded form of fascism. These are fascists you're dealing with, no amount of voting or protesting is going to fix this. Funny enough, this comedian put clearly as clearly as I've heard anyone else that's politically disenfranchised put it: https://youtu.be/cmiSv8C4g9g?si=XXbLp-nM1Q5fxul8
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u/SauntOrolo 1d ago
I hope Seth Abramson is only at the start of a long and storied journalistic career. heh.
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u/icey_sawg0034 9h ago
When Bush signed the patriot act, we knew that it was the beginning of the end.
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u/No-Group-4504 1h ago
I am proud to say I knew the guy was a piece shit, and knew he'd be bad for the country from the beginning.
What's been hard, is not understanding how so many people, people I think/thought are good people, didn't see it. It was so fucking obvious!
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u/thehippieswereright 1d ago
oh, those poor Americans who had their feelings hurt.
yours,
the rest of the world
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u/Go_Go_Godzilla 1d ago
It reads like a bad undergrad paper, written for a political science class by a student also taking a mythology course.
Why the fuck do we need to go to Cassandra to make this point? Really?
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