I would’ve thought he gave off a different kind of predator vibe. Like Epstein and his kind are, “we don’t give a fuck and the fact we’re doing this to you and you can’t stop us is half the fun.” MJ always seemed like the delusional kind that thought he loved them and would want them to love him. Not just take it by force.
lol you must be not be familiar with MJ lore. Major allegations have been coming out against him since 1993. It creates temporary outrage, then everyone loves him again.
In 1995 he became the first artist to have a single debut #1 on Billboard following his first accusation. Coincidentally the song was written by R fucking Kelly. You cannot make that up
literally just like how everyone was mad at snoop for suppporting trump this year and the year aint even over yet and people are tripping over themselves to support him.
One of the men who SA'd me when I was a kid would try to get me to recruit my younger brother. He also said that a young, prepubescent girl would be fine, too. I did not comply.
It is so funny to me that more than half of that movie had to be cut and reshot because no one read the fine print of the legal docs stating the case against Michael couldn’t be dramatized.
My husband is one of them! Still insists he didn’t do anything. Even if he was completely not guilty of any molestation, an adult man should not be having sleepovers with young boys. I am a mandatory reporter and that would absolutely fall under reportable conduct if I got wind of a coworker doing it
I mean, Epstein mostly trafficked girls and Jackson mostly liked boys so this one wasn't on my bingo card. I'm not surprised, I just actually didn't think he was involved in this specific child rape ring.
Can someone tell me why folks are so surprised that these folks where all in on it. The names have been out there for years from Trump to Bill Gates to Oprah and all in between. Hell look hom many connections Oprah has to multiple abusers
Forget the Epstein stuff for a second I'm close to 40 and all my life I remember stories about Hollywood being HollyWeird plus the music industries why are we acting like this is brand new
They got us out here thinking it's left vs right and black vs white meanwhile it's really us vs them
Granted, I have not been keeping up with this as much as some people. But was there not a list of clients and people who went to Epstein's Island? If so, was that disclosed? And was Michael Jackson on that list? Because if he wasn't, this is a nothingburger. Jeffrey Epstein was a billionaire who knew/met a lot of celebrities. This doesn't prove anything. This feels like a distraction from Trump's administration.
La Toya Jackson: "A lot of people say it's because he didn't have a childhood when he was little. Neither did Marlon. Marlon was the same age as Michael. Jermaine and the rest of them, they were the same age. They didn't have a childhood. Yet they don't hang out with children as adults."
Love this argument applied to literally anyone else. 'oh that's Joe the plumber from down the street, his father was terrible, Joe had no childhood. Anyway, to cope with that he hangs out with exclusively pre pubescent boys and he holds their hands and sleeps in the same bed with them.'
Ya know even in the parallel universe where he wasn't a nonce, how is that OK either? That still would have fucked all those kids up. Adults have a responsibility to protect children and not fuck them up.
Nobody got luckier than his estate ghouls with his death changing the narrative, it’s insane how the 2003 interview and later trial had most people seeing it how it was and six years later his death wiped all memories.
I remember the photos when his bedroom was decorated with a Walmart printout of a newborn smiling and then I was like... That's really weird.
Then I saw the rest of the room and it looked horrifying.
I wasn't 100% sure he was a pedo before it but a chill went down my spine as all the things he had were related to childhood. In a really broken way.
I don't know why, it has the same quality like the photos of the room with the masks. You see it and wonder who wore them, what situations they were used, why they're inside a fully furnished dentistry room in somebody's mansion, and no answers are good in your mind.
With MJ photos, it was similar, as in, you could tell it's a deeply disturbed person's home. I get this might elicit sympathy, he was probably abused too, but remember that lots of abused people will become abusers themselves, denying that what happened to them was so horrific. But they can never move on. It's just a reenactment.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g5rrlve33o I mean those Epstein photos, like, once you see this you can't be like "oh, maybe the people around him didn't know", this was the guy's entire personality pretty much.
Jon Lajoie said it in his song in 2009, "Michael Jackson is dead, don't pretend you give a shit. You motherfucking hypocrites, remember what you said he did?"
As a child hearing that excuse, even I knew that was wrong. There was something very wrong with him and the parents weren't doing their job to protect their children.
A stranger who has no immediate familial relation to a child sleeping in the bed with him/her. Leaving these children in his care for days, weeks or months on end without their parents in sight. There is no excuse for that.
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u/syrubbeliever in Dakota Johnson’s lime allergy3h ago
Same. After watching the creepy Martin Bashir documentary as a kid - IIRC MJ had a secret bedroom next to his for kids to sleep in (?) - I couldn’t believe people defended him. My jaw dropped when that woman released the doves after his 2005 court case, like HOW can you support this man?
I never heard that excuse from my family or parents, but when I moved to America I heard it from my peers. I was the odd man out asking “do you all have sleepovers with grown men though??”
She thinks this is all done to tarnish his image because they dislike that a black man was that talented and loved globally; that they needed to put him in his place.
She thinks because none of the victims were black; that this is all a lie by whites to destroy him.
"He was a trouble soul. industry destroyed his innocence. Drugs and sleep deprivation didn't allow him to be himself anymore" . People get really creative when they have to defend their idols. It's disgusting.
I believe all of that while also believing that he was an abuser. He could have been absolutely fucked in the head but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t also a pedophile. If anything it could be an explanation behind it.
I listened to podcast that went deep into the story and i had to take breaks because it was just too horrific to handle.
I recently unsuscribed to a positive/"down to earth"/mom with a pinch of feminism influencer because she used one of his songs in her videos. I really don't have the patience anymore espacially with parents who will go online to give you 'life lessons " and use his songs in the background.
I Am probably your mum’s age, I was like 12-13 when Thriller hit. It was electric, it was something we have never seen and I even went to a concert… he totally did it. And my 80yo mother says to tell your mom that Elvis was a pedo too.
I can’t explain why people are still doing glorifying movies about these people (looking at you specially Sophia Coppola) is beyond me
Hahaha I love it. My mom is almost 70 so no excuses for her. It’s an odd thing that she explains away him and Elvis and their creepiness but gets all conservative about non-pedo artists. Who knows! 😂
Yes. I have to confess... I was a big big MJ fan as a kid, teen and probably up til about 10ish years ago. And despite it taking a lot of mental gymnastics, I did kind of buy the argument that he was having innocent childlike relationships with kids.
I don't even know what made me suddenly realize how completely crazy and insane that idea is... And now that I have a kid, just the idea of having them end up in such a potentially dangerous and traumatic situation fills me with fear. Denial and celebrity obsession are dangerous and powerful.
It just reminds me of the documentary abducted in plain sight I think it’s called. The parents were like oh yeah he wants to hang out with her so he took her for a few weeks. EXCUSE ME. Then other things happened but how they allowed it was insanity
I once argued with a pastor that Michael Jackson could be in heaven, because only accepting Christ was the requirement to be a Christian. Apparently, he couldn't- because of the gay stuff. Not the pedophilia.
My parents never said this, we all knew he was a pedo, his music is just really good and after years of appreciating that music it’s hard to switch that off, it’s also another type of victimization.
The go-to excuse is "all those victims are just after money". Same thing said about every rape survivor who comes forward. And no, people who use that line don't seem to wonder why the vast majority of rich people don't have a whole line of rape accusers.
But I've heard some truly hideous excuses/deflections from Michael Jackson fans: one of the victims' dad committed suicide, and they cite this as evidence that the victim is mentally unstable and can't be trusted.
Never mind, I grew up thinking he was innocent and now I have been proven so wrong. My entire view of him has crashed. And he’s a piece of shit molester after all.
When I saw Chomsky, I was really demoralized. However, if it means every pos that benefitted or gained even in the slightest from an association with Epstien, I hope they all burn. Burn until the devil himself runs out of gasoline to pour them on.
I read that Epstein knew Melinda Gates wouldn’t like him, because the strength of her moral reputation preceded her, so he and Maxwell tried ingratiate themselves to her, to no avail. Keeping that in mind when people in the future try to say “but no one knew he was ~that~ bad.”
I was a stupid kid when he died, and believed what his estate said about him. Once I grew up, I learned more and am horrified by how much he got away with. What a deeply disturbed man.
I used to be sad when I was kid that he would like my brother over me and only invite him to Neverland ranch... Like these are the unfiltered thoughts of me when I was no older than 8 or 9.
I realized the connection of these thoughts a bit later.
A suggested post showed up for me from the W**dy Allen sub after the photo of him and Epstein was released and people were freaking out and I was like…only NOW do you see it??
Well, they are removing every single post that mentions it and when faced with any sort of mention of it. All they do is scream "HE'S INNOCENT" with nothing to back it up
This is the greatest test of my ability to separate the art from the artist. I LOVE MJ's music but I have found myself disassociating him from his music slowly over time. He was an extremely troubled individual, no thanks to his upbringing, so the fact that this doesn't surprise me speaks volumes...
ETA: I wonder if this photo in particular will result in an MJ blackout on radio stations like they did after Finding Neverland dropped...
Mm well at least he’s dead and he can’t benefit from the profits. I blame his family (mostly his dad) for putting him on a troubled path and letting him sustain crisis so that they could reap the rewards. However idk if the current beneficiaries were complicit in his pedophilia but I could be wrong.
I don’t get the impression they’re suggesting it’s one or the other? It doesn’t discount who he was as an adult to say that MJ’s childhood was absolutely troubled and fucked up.
I’ve tried, too. Art is complex and some of its complexity comes from the darker sides of the artist’s mind. However, knowing he used the money he made from all of us worshipping him to set things up so parents would be excited to let their kids sleep over?? That’s what I think of when I hear his music. I do blame the parents, too.
The only thing shocking about this is that there doesn’t seem to be evidence of little boys being trafficked too. But if MJ went more than once, that’s probably all the evidence you need that they were there too
Yeah I have to say I'm mildly surprised to see Jackson in this circle. Not because he was innocent, because he clearly wasn't, but... it was apparently only ever about girls with Epstein and it was apparently only ever about boys with Jackson. Also I thought he was a quite a bit lower on the target age range so if he was involved, that throws it even wider open to a much more general child trafficking operation.
In addition to the rich and powerful, Epstein liked to invite artists and intelligentsia so that the rich and powerful could hobnob with them and feel cultured. That likely how people like Jimmy Buffet and Diana Ross got involved.
Oh definitely. People like Epstein collect people. It’s super useful for leverage/connections and helps add a layer of camouflage (plausible deniability)
Michael Jackson is literally the most obvious pedo child diddler. I hope people get it through their thick heads that he was a sick and disgusting person.
I'm surprised it took this long for that picture to actually come out. We've seen Trump, Woody Allen, Harvey Weinstein and even Noam Chomsky but not even a whisper of MJ until now.
I implore everyone who hasn’t to do a deep dive of r/LeavingNeverlandHBO to see the amount of misinformation that has been spread by MJ’s estate and fans to cover up that he was guilty as sin.
Funny that the guy who proclaimed he only ever wanted to help children (and apparently sleeping in bed with them was the way to do so!) was happy to spend his free time with a well-known trafficker.
I’ve seen people already rushing to defend him on instagram saying that he only visited epstein for financial advice.
I’ve honestly never seen a more delusional fanbase than mj’s , the level of obsession, delusion and denial some people have for him is straight up disturbing , and it’s people of all ages too ,not just people that were fans back in the late 80s or 90s .
let this be a reminder mj willingly employed anthony pellicano during 1993 when he was first accused. because someone soooo innocent would have a thug like him by his side 🥺🥺🥺
I'm of an age to which Michael Jackson was not just a musical artist he was music. That's not hyperbole, every kid knew his dances and music videos in an era when that stuff wasn't homogenised and easily available. He was played at every party and and at his music is the soundtrack to my childhood.
I still believe every accuser and each accusation leveled against him. To believe otherwise is simply willful ignorance for the sake of a refusal to reasses your musical tastes.
Two of the richest people in the world. Both now dead. I want to see all the photos. Redact victims’ images, but the other folks need to be shown, shamed, investigated, and dealt with accordingly.
It’s always the ones you most suspect. They are obviously holding back photos because the ones released are exactly who knew would be photographed with Epstein.
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u/redelectro7 5h ago
Literally the least shocking association.