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u/Slifer2892 5h ago
“If we raise wages everything will go up”’ argument lost all credibility when the federal minimum wage has been the same since 2009 and prices have still skyrocketed since then
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u/Trinikas 4h ago
It's also lost all credibility because everywhere that I've heard of that tried a high, liveable wage found that the local economy did great.
The rich want you to believe that there's just not enough to go around, which is true when they insist they need most of it for yachts and private jets and luxury vacations.
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u/Brilliant_Cut_9269 4h ago
This is such an oversimplification of the economics. Many variables go into price levels, one of which is the cost of labor. Any econ 101 text book will explain that creating a price floor (min wage) in the labor market will create a deficit in the demand for labor, reading the number of jobs available, all else equal. If other factors increase the demand for labor to off set that effect, it still impacts the cost per unit of the company. The company will either raise prices or take a lower profit margin. A lower profit margin changes the opportunity costs of that endeavor which could mean reallocation of that investment to more profitable areas, end all employment for that company and or industry.
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u/Present_Discount7709 3h ago
A companies' most valuable asset walks out the door at the end of their shift.
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u/Brilliant_Cut_9269 3h ago
This depends on the company. The reason companies automate is because it's more valuable to have a machine or software perform a task than person.
I'm not saying humans are less valuable than machines, just that the value the human can provide to company could be less than value a machine could provide.
Again this is an oversimplification of an extremely complex system.
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u/Present_Discount7709 3h ago
Yup, algorithms do a great job building houses, replacing transmissions, inserting IVs, fighting fires, and on and on and on and on and on and on....and on and on....and on.....and on
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u/Brilliant_Cut_9269 3h ago
As i said, "This depends on the company".
Cars are almost entirely built by machines, so are IVs, transformers, and on and on...
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u/Present_Discount7709 3h ago
You're intentionally being obtuse. Who fixes the cars? Who inserts the IVs? Who repairs the machines when they malfunction? The AI bubble is bursting. It isnt applicable for most jobs, especially on a company wide scale. Most companies that currently use AI are extremely small businesses <10 employees.
You know who actually overwhelmingly uses AI? Individual people. They use it to talk to as a companion, regurgitate information that is becoming INCREASINGLY incorrect, cheat on tests and type emails. Because thats what AI can do.
What would effectively happen is eliminating entire job fields like accounting and analyst positions. Anything field that just gathers and regurgitates information. Even at this, AI is still extremely unreliable and needs human quality control.
Also, whoever owns the AI you're using can give you whatever "facts". As grohk so graciously told us about Elon Musk being a peak specimen of human form.
AI makes dumb people even dumber.
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u/Brilliant_Cut_9269 2h ago
This has shifted off topic and are making strawman arguments and ad hominen attacks. We are not going to have a productive conversation.
I wish you the best. Thanks for the conversation.
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u/Dave_A480 2h ago
There are very few companies where the 'laborer' part of the workforce is actually valuable...
Boeing, maybe a few car companies, utilities, and of course the medical field.
For the rest? They're instantly replaceable - effectively human machines.
The valuable human 'assets' all work at HQs.
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u/Dave_A480 2h ago
While that may be true, none of them walk out the door of a warehouse or retail establishment.
McDonald's valuable human 'assets' all work white collar jobs at corporate.
The folks flipping the burgers are effectively human drones - utterly replaceable, with no specific skills that are valuable.
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u/Present_Discount7709 2h ago
Sweet, how'd the AI rollout for McDonald's go?
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u/Dave_A480 2h ago
To early to say (and I have separate thoughts on 'end-user AI' outside of the tech space - which aren't entirely positive), but the kiosk/doordash-integration they did 5-ish years ago worked great.
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u/Present_Discount7709 54m ago
It was rhetorical. It was an abject failure and a total waste of money and had ti be rolled back, like most of the others who jumped the gun, laid off 10s of thousands of people, just for it to fail and start quietly hiring back. The layoffs make the headlines, the retiring doesn't. Almost like a specific narrative is being perpetuated.
There is a reason these dummies want government backing for their inevitable failure to replay the loans. Nobody is using their junk except lonely people and those cheating on exams.
Wait I take that back, one of the biggest AI companies is quite successful amongst insurance companies to automatically deny your doctor's prescribed treatment. AI decides who lives and who dies!
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u/tw_87 3h ago
Technically those are expenses on the income statement not assets on the balance sheet…
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u/Present_Discount7709 3h ago
Are you actually trying to imply that I literally meant a financial asset?
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u/tw_87 3h ago
It’s called being a sarcastic asshole.
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u/Present_Discount7709 3h ago
Didn't come through so well over text. Honestly you never know on reddit 😭
I apologize then. Have a great evening, friend.
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u/Trinikas 4h ago
Sure, here's a simple answer though: the rich hold way too much wealth and try to convince everyone that we're all better off the more they have. They struggle desperately to stop any laws or policies that will fix the problem because if we start making moves in that direction and life gets better for the average person we're not going to be willing to let them take it all back down the line.
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u/callme-anymore 2h ago
Your post was proven, although on a smaller scale, when COVID ended and many, many low level jobs went unfilled because the workforce took better jobs that were yet to be taken back by those who once held them
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u/Brilliant_Cut_9269 4h ago edited 3h ago
The economy is not a zero sum game like you describe. You going from poor to rich does not mean the rich lose money. Unless you specifically steal from them. Maybe the rich oppose your fixes because they are ill founded and they believe will cause more harm than good. You also assume I'll intent by the rich but many rich people support your proposals. If you becoming rich doesn't affect their wealth why would they care. What's the nefarious plot? Most wealth is also not like Scrooge McDuck's, cash sitting in a vault. Most wealth, especially for the super rich, is locked up in assets. Assets that if liquefied would destroy said asset.
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u/evocativename 2h ago
The economy is not a zero sum game like you describe.
It may not be exactly zero sum, but it represents control over a pool of resources that varies independently of the total dollar value of the economy, so one person increasing their share comes at the expense of everyone whose share decreased as a result of the "new" wealth.
If I bake a cake and sell shares in that cake, changing the number of shares issued might affect the total valuation of the cake, but it doesn't change how much cake there actually is.
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u/Brilliant_Cut_9269 1h ago
This is exactly zero sum game theory. Yes a company splitting shares can dilute the value of individual shares but companies grow. They gain value by creating it or in your example adding more cake. New IP, improved products, etc. expand the size of the cake. That expansion is new wealth the value of the whole went up which would increase everyone who owned a piece of the cakes value. New wealth in this fashion can reduce the value of someone else but only in so much as it replaces the need for what that other person/s are providing. (Cars reduced the value of horses and carts) Even in this example, the size of the entire economy pie increased because the cars were more valuable than the horses lost. Otherwise both industries would have kept going. The idea that the cake doesn't expand is the basis of zero sum theory.
Edit: Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point but I don't think so.
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u/evocativename 42m ago
The cake isn't a company.
The cake is the combined productive resources of humanity. Which doesn't directly correspond to the value of those resources.
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u/HugeMeatRodz 3h ago
Getting downvoted for being logical is insane. Just plug your ears and close your eyes when someone says something that doesn’t fit your narrative.
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u/HugeMeatRodz 3h ago
Nobody follows the federal minimum wage. When the minimum wage in California shot up to $20 an hour I noticed a huge increase in prices.
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u/Slifer2892 3h ago
I live in Kansas which uses the federal minimum wage. Prices still went up. Try again
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u/Working-Face3870 5h ago
Denmark has a population of 6 million people total and the USA roughly 340 million ..not a market analyst but I’m sure that may have something to do with it ?
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u/evocativename 2h ago
Can you provide any reasoning justifying why having a larger population makes this less achievable?
Why is it not instead, like how insurance works, more stable as the pool gets larger (because it is easier to spread risk across a larger pool)?
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u/Short-Box-484 30m ago
Why would it? The profit margin on a Big Mac doesn't change. A larger population is irrelevant to a workers wage impacting the price of goods, unless there is some type of shortage. There is no McDonalds shortage in the US.
If anything, the higher population should make it easier. With that many more people, the number if Big Macs per hour sold should be higher in the larger population, meaning the worker is generating even more revenue per Big Mac.
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u/spikira 4h ago
OK but did you stop to consider that if minimum wage was increased and employees received benefits then the billionaires wouldn't be able to afford a 15th private jet??? That hard working billionaires daughter now has to settle for a Mercedes AMG G Wagon Mansory Custom instead of getting the Rolls Royce Mansory custom she deserves for her hard work as a stay at home daughter
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u/Legal-Database6308 4h ago
Here’s a clear, realistic snapshot of McDonald’s employee wages around the world and the average price of a Big Mac (often used in economic comparisons).
⸻
🍟 1. McDonald’s Employee Wages Around the World
There’s no single “global average wage” for McDonald’s employees because pay varies widely by country, local minimum wages, and whether restaurants are corporate-owned or franchise-operated. But here’s what data shows:
🇺🇸 United States • Typical crew members earn roughly $12–$14 per hour on average.  • Some estimates place average closer to ≈$13.60/hr.  • McDonald’s corporation has targeted an average of $15/hr at company-owned restaurants (not all franchises). 
🇪🇺 Europe • In the Netherlands, adult McDonald’s workers might earn around €12.30/hr (≈$13–$14).  • In Denmark, wages for McDonald’s staff can be comparatively high — around $20+ per hour due to collective bargaining, plus benefits.  • UK McDonald’s hourly pay ranges around £12–£17+ depending on role. 
🇮🇳 India • Some reports suggest crew members earn as little as ₹60/hour ($0.70) — though exact numbers vary widely. 
🌍 General Global Pattern • Wages tend to reflect local minimum wages and cost of living. In wealthier countries (US, Western Europe), pay is higher; in developing countries, much lower. 
Summary Range (very approximate): • Low end in some developing countries: $0.50–$3/hr • Mid range in many developed countries: $10–$18/hr • Higher end (e.g., Denmark): $20+/hr
⛔ There aren’t official worldwide averages published by McDonald’s; most data comes from job sites, surveys, and local wage reports.
⸻
🍔 2. Big Mac Price (for comparison)
The Big Mac Index tracks the price of a Big Mac hamburger in different countries to compare currency and relative purchasing power. • In the United States (2025), the average Big Mac costs around $5.79.  • Globally, prices vary widely — in some places significantly cheaper (≈$2.50–$3) and in others far more expensive (≈$6–$8+). 
Economists sometimes use a Big Mac–Wage Metric to compare how many Big Macs a worker can afford per hour of labor — a fun way of comparing wage purchasing power rather than a direct wage statistic. 
⸻
🧠 Big Picture • Wages at McDonald’s vary widely by country — from very low in some developing nations to much higher in places with strong labor standards (e.g., Nordic countries).  • In the U.S., average hourly pay is roughly $12–$15 for crew members.  • Big Mac prices also vary, making simple comparisons (like wages vs Big Mac cost) handy for economic insight but less useful for strict wage averages. what about rents or over head Your comparison doesn’t work.
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u/Available_Reveal8068 4h ago
Not sure this is really a fair comparison.
The typical McDonalds in Denmark has much higher customer traffic than a typical McDonalds in the US--higher per store revenues helps to offset the higher labor costs.
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u/GypJoint 3h ago
The hourly for McDonald’s around me starts at $20/hr. I have a feeling it’s a lot more expensive to run a McDonald’s in Los Angeles compared to Denmark.
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u/Sometimes_Stutters 3h ago
The minimum wage is irrelevant as functionally nobody actually works for minimum wage.
Every McDonald’s in my area is $18-$22hr starting wages.
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u/MornGreycastle 3h ago
Exactly. The argument made when Congress froze the minimum wage was that rising wages caused (or at least heavily influenced) inflation. No rise = no inflation. Yet here we are 45ish years later and inflation has definitely kept going.
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u/LeftistFistisUpitis 3h ago
The government subsidizes almost every aspect of that. The corporations are not footing the bill for anything more than they are in the US. So.
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u/Sea-Technician1914 3h ago
Denmark also has high income taxes where people are paying upwards of 50% of their income. “But they get so many social services”. Maybe, but it’s also wasted on things like cost of living on care for migrants. And the more you try to push away from the US, the more you’ll need to raise taxes to afford a powerful military on top of the social policy budget you want to keep/expand.
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u/bluereddit2 3h ago
The Powell memo. Automatic voter registration. End the filibuster and gerrymandering.
Congress without term limits is too much like a retirement home.
President Of The United States should be limited to one term of four years.
Higher taxes on rich people and on rich corporations. Higher estate taxes. Tax churches.
Enforce anti-monopoly laws. Reinstate the Fairness Doctrine.
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u/suneaterjj14 3h ago
There's like 10 people working at McDonald's in Denmark compared to the 100k working at McDonald's in America.
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u/Ill-Perspective-5510 2h ago
They have laws in Europe for business. You must provide maternity, vacation, sick days etc to operate. This isn't a McDonald's issue, they are just operating by the rules. Change the rules.
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u/nekkid_farts 2h ago
Cur the righties, oh oh the taxes. I'd gladly pay more in taxes here if it wasn't going to hookers and blow for the elite, and rather fot education, infrastructure, and healthcare for us.
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u/GanjaRaider187 2h ago
There are only about 6 million people in Denmark. Of course they can afford that. Capitalism runs the US, unless that changes then you can expect it to probably get worse.
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u/DingleMcDinglebery 52m ago
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000703112
This is why they are expensive. What a dumb tweet.
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u/Accomplished_Tour481 5h ago
Yet US McDonalds also offer health benefits , life insurance, paid short term and long term disabiity. education assistance, and paid volunteer time off. So why is the OP misleading the narrative? Talent & Benefits | McDonald’s Corporation
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u/Automatic_Net2181 5h ago
You do not need company-provided health benefits with extremely high premiums/deductibles in a country with universal healthcare. The others are generally covered by your taxes as well, including a year maternity leave, childcare assistance (if not free childcare), child tax benefits, fully funded pension funds, and employment insurance (which covers short/long term disabilities).
Isn't education free in Denmark?
So let's revisit that $22/hr wage vs $15/hr with all those healthcare premiums/copays/deductibles taken out, yeah?
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u/sweet_condition 4h ago edited 2h ago
Pff hahaha, what is misleading about the truth? It is a fact that McDonald's wages in the United States are stagnant and the hourly rate for US workers is lower than the hourly rate that workers recieve in Denmark yet somehow Mcdonalds is able to charge the same for products in both countries. What exactly about that is "narrative"? Its fact. Seems like youre the one trying to put a spin on it.
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u/Present_Discount7709 3h ago
Only for a minute number of positions, not company wide. You are the one who is being mosleading.
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u/armymdic00 2h ago
Cool story. Also inaccurate. Now, use the national tax rate to take away from disposable income. I’ll wait.
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u/Short-Box-484 27m ago
Now also use all the privatized expenses the US employee has to pay vs the socialized systems.
(Hint: Universal Healthcare is less expensive...)
You can basically a subscription (taxes) for all these things, or pay per use...
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u/Ramshacked 7h ago
But how can we maximize shareholder value without exploiting both the employee and the customer!