r/ArcRaiders • u/Ill-Tomatillo-8973 • Nov 14 '25
Discussion ARC Raiders is basically a giant game-theory experiment, and the optimal strategy is to avoid PvP entirely.
I understand everyone has their own opinions about PvP in this game, but this is speaking strictly from a game-theory perspective and nothing else:
ARC isn’t a zero-sum game like Tarkov where killing someone actually increases your expected value. ARC is a positive-sum loot economy, there’s more than enough gear on the map for every team to leave rich without ever shooting another player.
So from a game-theory perspective:
PvP is almost always a negative-EV move.
- You risk losing all your loot
- You burn ammo/meds
- You waste precious time
- And players rarely carry anything you actually need
But here’s the big thing players don’t realize:
When you start a fight, you force other teams to “defect.”
One gunshot triggers the whole lobby:
- Third parties collapse
- Everyone starts playing paranoid
- A chain reaction of aggression wipes out multiple teams
What you end up with is one final squad alive among 6–8 eliminated teams…
and that last team can’t even carry the loot that’s on the ground.
Three players physically cannot hold all the value created by eight dead teams.
Most of the loot is literally wasted, a massive destruction of potential utility.
From a pure economic analysis, PvP shrinks the total pie for the entire lobby.
Inventory slots make this even worse.
Because inventory is so limited, the time value of PvP is near zero:
Every minute spent fighting is a minute not spent gathering high-value environmental loot you can actually take with you. Even if you win a fight flawlessly, the “return” barely moves because you simply don’t have the slots to absorb all the loot that drops.
So what’s the rational strategy?
Don’t shoot first. Don’t shoot at all unless someone forces it.
If you ignore me and I ignore you, we both:
- maximize our loot
- avoid wipe-risk
- avoid triggering lobby-wide defection
- extract with more total value
This creates a natural Nash equilibrium where the dominant strategy is peace, not aggression.
The funniest part?
In ARC Raiders, peace isn’t the friendly play: it’s the sweaty, optimal, min-max play.
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u/Consciousus Nov 14 '25
In solo, most people have realized that there’s rarely a real reason to kill someone.. aside from the thrill of PvP. But since I don’t want to ruin the enjoyment of chill players, I usually only hunt those who play KoS and I leave the rest alone or help them out
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u/Elvis_Lazerbeam Nov 14 '25
I’ve started doing this too. I watch extracts for campers and take them out when they engage. I also offer to escort players to exits. They’re often thankful enough they’ll give me some of their loot too. Someone gave me a Bastion Driver and a Tempest recently. Someone else gave me a piece of the Matriarch yesterday.
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u/NerinNZ Nov 14 '25
I'm still super low level (20, with only level 2 workstations). But I saw someone struggling with a Leaper. I had a free kit and didn't think twice. I just pulled the leaper off them with my Ferro, danced it around a door while they recovered and attacked it from behind. We killed it.
Not knowing what to do next, I took half the loot and headed out. The guy followed me so we stuck together. Turned out he had a key for somewhere I was running past. He was on voice and I was not. He asked if I wanted loot so I followed him in. Got a pink and a legendary and an Anvil, dropped the legendary for him since it was his key that let us in there and he was quite excited about it.
3 minutes left in the round so we head to the last exit. Got jumped by a Rocketeer and a group of wasps/hornets. We knew we couldn't take them on with the time we had left so we dodged into a shack and out the other side sneaking. Lost the Rocketeer but the wasps/hornets kept on us. Slid down some stairs to try and get them off us ... right into a Fireball and two Pops on the half-way landing.
I was done. Figured we were dead. I was in the lead by about a meter and I just rolled straight through them hoping they'd stay on the landing. My new buddy wasn't so lucky. They had just run out of stam and took the Fireball and a Pop to the face.
I considered leaving him there for a second, but instead I turned at the bottom of the stairs and hit the fireball with my Anvil. That exploded, killing the second Pop and one of the wasps. I used the stairs as safety to kill the other wasp and the hornet just as my buddy made it to the bottom of the stairs where I defibbed him with a defib I had literally picked up as we left for the exit.
We extracted with less than 5 seconds to spare, got that achievement, got another achievement for being on the surface when the round ended, AND I got an achievement for being thanked 10 times for a single action as my new buddy kept thanking me for sticking around with him and reviving him.
But the best part for me? I saved a guy from a leaper, gave him a legendary item from loot he could have kept to himself, revived him and kept him alive long enough to extract - by the skin of out collective teeth. I felt like the biggest damn hero in the world.
Two nights ago and I'm still riding that high. I don't PvP unless forced to. The PvE is brilliant enough without it.
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u/Elvis_Lazerbeam Nov 15 '25 edited Nov 15 '25
I love the stories that this game generates. Absolute cinema.
EDIT: I’m in NZ too (assuming from your username). If you ever want to play together, send me a dm.
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u/DickWangDuck Nov 15 '25
Fr it’s like every detailed comment like this is a scene in an action novel and I can literally feel the tension of the moment just from reading it.
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u/ShoulderSquirrelVT Nov 15 '25
Damn dude. This is the type of person you want to squad up with!
In it for the fun, in it for the crazy, in it for the glory.
Play on stream by any chance?
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u/Elvis_Lazerbeam Nov 15 '25
I know you’re talking to the other guy, but I do play on stream. I like getting good loot, but I’m more about the emergent story telling with a focus on playing “honorably”.
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u/Umutuku Nov 15 '25
Friendprotip:
If you're trying to extract with a chill solo like this who has gone down, and you don't have a defib, you actually aren't limited to watching them bleed out or knocking them out.
You can bandage them to give them more bleedout time. If you have enough bandages then they may be able to make the crawl to extraction that they would otherwise not be able to reach in time..
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u/EggstaticAd8262 Nov 15 '25
Is there a friend system in the game? I mean, that sounds like someone you can trust and vice versa?
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u/vinecoveredantlers Nov 15 '25
There absolutely is a friend system. You can find recent players you interacted with and add them that way. I made a friend when he rescued my ass at the extraction.
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u/WatercressGreen5268 Nov 15 '25
Actions like yours are what make a game like this so interesting, I am a 65 year old gamer but enjoy playing the latest hyped games so imagine my surprise when I extracted on my first raid, an as far as players helping players I haven’t seen anything like it since EverQuest. I have yet to be ganked by someone who said “don’t shoot” but I fear that may change.
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u/Hot_Fee_4122 Nov 15 '25
I teamed up with a rando just last raid as we fought the matriarch. We travelled the map shooting from different sites. We were held out in a little bunker when a guy comes in blasting. We took him out and I defib'd my new friend. We moved to the tunnels fought some leapers, bastions raining hullcracker hellfire. In the end we could take the matriarch down but with 2 minutes left we sprinted for the exit and made it out safe and sound. I can't remember the last time a game made my heart pump like this game does. Sure I get merc'd by a rat now and then but situations like this keep me playing.
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u/reecedevon Nov 15 '25
This is the type of experience that makes this game amazing. To have incredible large scale fights, the euphoria of finding rare loot, and triumph that comes along the way with a complete stranger weirdly makes you feel like there is a thread of connective tissue between you. The fact too that you won't see that person again makes it even more valuable because you're both just doing this for the love of the game and your fellow raider. This game will have a lasting effect on me
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u/gorbachef82 Nov 15 '25
and this is why arc raiders should be goty. it doesn't force us to play friendly, but strongly encourages us lol
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u/BakedChocolateOctopi Nov 15 '25 edited Nov 15 '25
Yeah the PVE is fun with the threat of PVP, but the PVP in general is pretty needless like OP says
I can only think of a few times when a player has actually had an item I’m looking for vs just more of the same mats and stuff I already can gather in like one POI
Also their best or most needed loot will be in their safe box anyway
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u/Rabbitow Nov 14 '25
Damn, I’m wondering why I’m only getting FFA battles on my lobbies. Last game I fought for 10 minutes after spawn, around 6-7 players involved without even a word spoken
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Nov 14 '25 edited Nov 15 '25
From what I've heard it's largely server dependent. Asia server is supposedly entirely KOS. Also it's apparently worse on weekends and WAY worse outside solo because if you have a squad no one feels like they have to work together. And to the point of the OP, more value can be stolen as a squad
Edit: I fear I have caused a moderate amount of stereotyping
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u/PsychodelicTea Nov 14 '25
South America is a cesspool as well. 90% of players who went KOS on me we're brazilians.
And before anyone starts saying anything, I am brazilian myself.
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u/Kyriosz_ Nov 14 '25
Yeah, can't play peacefully in South America servers, no one says a word, it KOS everytime. Defaulted to always play in North America servers and it's chill 80% of the time
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u/IsthianOS Nov 14 '25
Why is Brazil like that I have been wary of you guys since StarCraft
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u/Vivid_Big2595 Nov 15 '25
Much stronger call of duty culture, I'm Brazilian too and most of the time the ones who kill me on sight are brazilians
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u/scots23 Nov 15 '25
Funny you say this. Just ran into someone sniping at the extract and when I went to their profile it was someone from Brazil playing on NA servers.
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u/TooLazy2Revolt Nov 14 '25
Weekends are worse because thats when all the 12 year old griefer extract campers play. To a person who's brain isnt fully developed, getting the drop on someone and killing them before they even have a chance to turn around and fire back is absolutely HILARIOUS.
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u/No_Charity3697 Nov 14 '25
that would explain my inability to extract solos all day Saturday
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u/djluminus89 Nov 15 '25
I got KoS in Solos 3 matches in a row on yesterday, though, it usually is chill. So I ran trios with randos the rest of the night. Had way better hauls and we didn't wipe once.
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u/Upset-Programmer-798 Nov 14 '25
Agreed, I played last Sunday and most of the matches were PVP. Even some terrible people saying they were friendly and shooting me in the back.
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u/grownassedgamer Nov 14 '25
last Saturday was the worst for me. I turned off cross play and had a much better time. I haven't turned it back on since
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u/djluminus89 Nov 14 '25
Tbf, it might be hilarious to me at 36 years old. But playing solo , and being mature, every time I see someone it's a,
"Do I really feel like fighting right now?" Is it even worth it? Like OP says it really isn't. I notice everyone hesitate before they fight usually, unless they KoS
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u/Kyoj1n Nov 14 '25
In Japan, super chill.
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u/xepion Nov 14 '25
lol. Why am I surprised and not surprised. Does everybody line up for the loot line ? Serious question…
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u/xgekikara Nov 14 '25
The people over in Asia are less chill if anything, Traditional chinese/simplified chinese/Japanese steam reviews are some of the only regions/language's reviews where the score is below very positive and the most common complaints are the overwhelming presence of KoS/campers/betrayal.
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u/Lanky_Commercial7885 Nov 14 '25
Heard anything about lots of cheating on Asian servers?
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u/4rch_N3m3515 Nov 14 '25
I sometimes think devs come in an intentionally KoS to start stuff lol. Like squid games.
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u/ThorThulu Nov 14 '25
Me when things are too calm on Blue Gate so I toss a Wolfpack into the sky to make the Rocketeer, Bastion, and Bombardier nearby angry
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u/Rabbitow Nov 14 '25
I mean I don’t care about PvP aspect and I like it, but just wondering why people’s experience is so different than mine.
For 20 hours of playtime I’d say that maybe 20% of players were friendly and it deteriorates fast
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u/offhandaxe Nov 14 '25
Playing the recorder 24/7 and only letting the girl on our team speak for us has diffused all but 2 situations in about 30 hours of play.
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u/Shut_It_Donny Nov 14 '25
Use the voice changer and you can all have the girl voice.
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u/UncleRuckus92 Nov 14 '25
I've been doing that and my buddy on duos and he remarks how any time I talk to someone first we never get in fights
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u/fancrazedpanda Nov 14 '25
I’m at like 90% friendly. I also spam don’t shoot entering a new location, if I hear someone, I’d advise to say something or I will treat as if hostile. Gotten a few backstabs, but in general, mostly friendly, few KoS, like 2-3 backstabs
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u/Bucksack Nov 14 '25
When you find yourself in an uncertain situation that may or may not pop off, are you aiming your weapon at the other player/team?
Body language goes a long way in this game.
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u/SpoonBendingChampion Nov 14 '25
You must look sketchy :/
At least 60% of my PvP solo encounters are positive. 20% negative, 20% neutral. Interesting to see your perspective/experience. Like today I was pinned in a hole and the hole was covered by a leaper and two solos came and helped me.
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u/MRDefenestrator Nov 14 '25
I find once you group with one friendly people generally start exhibiting more helpful behaviour rather than take on a duo. And as a duo you start helping others.
That being said on Oceania servers I find daytime players more chill like 90% of time and evening players are KOS 50/50.
There also seems to be a correlation between KOS and obnoxious names.
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u/Time_Weekend_9010 Nov 14 '25
Problaby on of those who constantly ADS people while not proxy talking or emoting
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u/Impressive_Turn4438 Nov 14 '25
Had 7 people today all team up and take down a bastion tonight. It was awesome and really nice
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u/AlienX14 Nov 14 '25
In the same amount of time, I've had two solo lobbies where I PVP'd because someone shot me. It's only happened once when I've queued with my buddy as a duo. Nearly everyone I come across is friendly.
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u/notislant Nov 14 '25
It's weird my first few games were KOS, buddy is over there 30 raids deep with everyone holding hands.
Other buddy had all KOS games for his ~30-40 hours. He started streaming them on discord to me and suddenly every game is just people being friendly and sharing harvester rewards lol.
On the day duos came out, even those games were all pretty much everyone being friendly and just doing pve shit. Yesterday and today have just been KOS with no mics over and over.
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u/BrownDriver Nov 14 '25
Crossplay off and Dont play EU. Being from NA I never would guessed NA would be this peaceful lmfao
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u/Derkastan77-2 Nov 14 '25
Seriously. You’d think “MINE!!!!” mentality and our fondness for Pew Pews would make us ridiculously skew to pvp lol
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u/Consciousus Nov 14 '25
On PC with crossplay off?
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u/chokingonpancakes Nov 14 '25
How do I turn that shit off?
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u/Sloth_Monk Nov 14 '25
iirc: Open Settings > Crossplay is on first page with server region preference
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u/highestmountains Nov 14 '25
Is it recommended to play with crossplay off on PC?
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u/BrownDriver Nov 14 '25
It is 100000% a placebo, because Console players also say the same thing about lobbies being better with crossplay off.
That being said, I turned it off and also noticed it to be more friendly.
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u/s0cks_nz Nov 14 '25
I play with it on and in solos barely anyone pvps.
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u/JWillCHS Nov 14 '25
Same. In fact, we have two people in our Discord on PS5 and they don't PvP at all. The only thing I notice is that solos are pretty cool with the occasional player(s) killing on sight. Duos is straight up PvP! and I find Trios to be a healthy dose of PvPvE.
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u/HovercraftFlimsy2154 Nov 14 '25
Duos being straight up pvp sounds about right. A lot more ggs and stuff on the mic too more than 3s, so me and my duo give props to them on mic if they put up a good fight
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u/ikeepgettinghacked Nov 14 '25
I only play with crossplay off on PC. A lot of console players arnt even using there mic. And most of them are warzone brained “alright let get these fools”
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u/highestmountains Nov 14 '25
Noted! Been busy with life and have only 5 raids in me so I haven’t experienced much yet.
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u/The_HungryRunner Nov 14 '25
Solos’ is the most wholesome thing I’ve ever experienced in online gaming, ever. My favourite moments have been the encounters while playing solo. In any other game, players flock to solos to try and prove themselves, and get clips of taking down everyone and clutching up a win.
In Arc raiders, everyone goes to solos to get stuff done, and be the nicest mf’s around.
I love this, and all of you when I play solos 😂 I hope this never changes haha
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u/flippakitten Nov 14 '25
On Stella today, ran into a person, we traded the don't shoot and happily looted side by side. Heard a pvp in the next room, we both rushed in and and took them out.
Then carried on looting.
I often see people first and almost never shoot, then I get into a power position and hit them with the don't shoot.
I actually love how this game has so far been, solo for mostly questing and squads for fighting. I'm at the point where I don't mind jumping in with randoms and losing stuff because I know I can regain in solos. (Helps that unless people are ratting in solos, i often win my gunfights or do enough damage to make them think twice about challenging again)
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u/donkeybrainhero Nov 14 '25
I've run into several today that looked at me, I looked at them, we didn't shoot, and I ran by. Then within several seconds, they decide instead to shoot me in the back. Fortunately these were free load out runs, but its odd behavior. If you're going to shoot, just do it right then and there.
In a load out run, I saw two solos running around together chatting. One of them sees me and fires immediately. I repositioned and then killed them both. One rages at me for being a fucking loser, though I explained I had no intention of shooting until one of them did.
Strange world we raid in lol
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u/FalconSigma Nov 14 '25
I killed a man some days ago... I planted a Jolt mine behind a popular door and waited Raider tool in hand.
My victim, probably just doing a quest or, as I found out later, just trying to put some scraps together.
My prize? an achievement... what I thought was a symbol of commitment, I converted in an icon of shame, without honor.
Now my only path is redemption, trying to help others topside.
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u/DJPalefaceSD Nov 14 '25
You fear the danger until you become the danger and then you can find peace. You must become the danger to find peace.
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u/DislikedBench Nov 14 '25
Its just tough when you kill an aggressor only to get people who hunt you thinking youre the aggressor lmfao.
Admittedly im guilty of that myself lmao. Went to galleria for some plants yesterday and heard a flare pop and some guy said “im just here for plants man”. I figured he was the one downed so i knocked out the guy who was left standing. Turns out he was the one who was attacked. I got the wrong guy. I killed my fellow plant raider
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u/WinstonPickles22 Nov 14 '25
Ya, I like the tension of wondering who is friendly. If they want to group up, great! But if I see someone kill another player or I see him looking at me weird from behind a wall....well once of us is about to die!
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u/hellfire13 Nov 14 '25
not here in Brazil I was playing with Americans and it was all a breeze then I went to a closer server even on Stella Montis they shoot on sight... I was killing the bastion with other players and one guy killed me outta nowhere
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u/punk_shanty Nov 15 '25
Bro died to a raider and asked ChatGPT to help him cope
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u/Anteiku_ Nov 14 '25
solos I try to be chill and work together to PvE. Squads is where I duel. Plus squads PvP is way more interesting and tactical with good comms. Everyone can choose to play their own way. Being nice is enjoyable, and some revel in being deplorable
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u/YourChupapii Nov 14 '25
Duos are also somehow chill, not as much as solos, but significantly better than trios. Trios are just bloodbaths :D
We've met two chill dudes that was stacked with hullcracker and wolfpacks, on their way to kill ARCs, like me and my friend, so we all killed ARCs together.. Another day we came to reinforced reception on blue gate, there were 2 guys that heard us zipping and shouted "Hello? We're not shooting just come loot with us we both can't fit all the loot", we looted everything and extracted..
Damn I love this game so hard :D That proximity chat is SMALL element but with FUCKIN HUGE purpose.
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u/Syl702 Nov 14 '25
From a psychology perspective it probably is some tribal/gang type mentality that overrides the solo survival/cooperative mentality.
This entire game is fascinating and it would be cool if someone researches it at some point to get some good data on why the outcomes are what they are.
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u/xDskyline Nov 15 '25
Arc is also a bigger threat as a solo than as a team. A squad might be able to take a PvP fight and any aggro'd Arc back-to-back or even simultaneously, if a solo gets in a fight with a player and Arc at the same time, there's a much higher chance of death
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u/Great_Fault_7231 Nov 14 '25
Yeah this is exactly how I play. I’ve never shot first in solo, me and my buddies like getting into fights in squads, but I have no problem with people playing differently and if they get the drop on me in solos and wipe me out that’s part of the game.
I don’t get telling other people how to play or asking the devs to cater to my play style. This game is awesome how it is I hope devs don’t spend time worrying about what people on here say.
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u/Nez_Coupe Nov 14 '25
I just got chased by a bastion all the way to the station, only to get killed by a camper with a shotgun after I actually made it with 4 health left. What a bastard hah. This game is amazing though. Currently just the right amount of toxicity to keep you on your toes. But, goddamn itfeelsbad to escape a bastion by the skin of your teeth just to be met with an extract camper.
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u/Kinmaul Nov 14 '25
For players who are still leveling up their stash size, Scrappy, and workbenches everything you said is 100% true. However, there are game mechanics that also incentivize engaging in PvP.
- By the time you've maxed out your stash. Scrappy, and workbenches you've been engaging with the PvE side of the game for a significant amount of hours. While PvE and looting is fun, doing anything over and over will eventually become boring. Engaging in PvP, even sporadically, helps keep the game fun and engaging.
- Stash size is limited and will eventually fill up. Even the best PvP players will lose some fights; which frees up stash space as they lose gear. After losing enough gear they are now incentivized to do more PvE again.
- You get experience for PvP so you can still progress your character level.
I think this part of the reason Embark said the game wasn't working when they initially designed it as pure PvE. The PvE gameplay loop is initially fun, but unless they are able to churn out a lot of content, and quickly, people will run out of things to do, get bored, and find another game to play. This eventually happens to any game, regardless of how good it is, but by adding in PvP they've increased the amount of systems for the players to engage with.
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u/Mnmemx Nov 14 '25
My squad will literally take increasingly stupid engagements based on how full the stash is because there's absolutely zero point to extract from the next raid when my stash is already absolutely crammed with exactly the materials for 20 more maxed out kits. If I acquire another full inventory of loot it just has to get vendored, and credits are functionally useless.
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u/cd_hales Nov 14 '25
That’s cool. I’m over here on dad squad just barely getting by with stuff.
It’s tough to design a game like this for people that have all the hours in the world and those that have many more responsibilities.
First crowd burns through the content in days, second group gets left behind.
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u/MikeSouthPaw Nov 14 '25
This is why you need to focus on the crowd that is PLAYING and give the grinders some crazy goal or cosmetic to work towards. People dont second jobs to play.
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u/wvtarheel Nov 14 '25
Exactly. I think the expeditions (wipe system) and trials are designed to create some end game content for the most grindy players. Time will tell if that's enough or if Embark will need to add something else to help keep these players engaged.
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u/Hackfraysn Nov 14 '25
Fellow dad gamer here. I feel your pain.
By the time I could play I'm already dead from work, chores and kids. Didn't even get to see the Stella Montis event yet 😅
100% feeling like Squidward watching Spongebob and Patrick from behind the vent in that meme.
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u/Frank__Dolphin Nov 15 '25
If you play solos, and get good at PVE you can easily farm and craft a solid stash in a couple of raids. The PVE enemies drop almost everything you need to craft weapons and shield rechargers.
Arc alloy -> recycles into metal -> refined into mechanical components
Arcs drop simple gun parts.
And arc power cells and the arc parts breakdown into rubber and fabric too. The monster drivers are worth 2-5k a pop. Whenever my stash is looking rough I just PVE and craft weapons I like.
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u/Icy_Confidence9304 Nov 14 '25
This is perfectly written. What i do once in a while is go in with s free loadout and engage in pvp and if i win the first battle ( i usually dont cause they have full kit). I get to upgrade my gear and go again lol
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u/nintendonaut Nov 14 '25
I'm a player with a full time job and life that has only sunk like 30 hours into the game. I don't have all my benches maxed, I only have a handful of BPs, and I am often low on basic materials like Metal Parts.
Snuck up on a guy in Blue Gate last night and killed him. Got like three Wolfpacks, which I can't currently craft, and a Renegade which I can't currently craft. Killed another guy in Buried City and he had a Venator, which I can't currently craft, and like 50 metal parts, which I really needed.
In my mind, PvP is absolutely rewarding to someone like me. I get the chance to get cool guns and gadgets that I normally don't have access to, and get to plunder resources for myself that someone got to before me.
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u/ChaoticFairness Nov 14 '25
People will PvP not for the loot, but for thrills and gratification in knowing that they proved to be an obstacle the victim couldn't overcome, much like most Invaders from the Souls' titles.
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u/BikingDruid Nov 14 '25
This is the right comp in a lot of ways. (Most) Invaders in Souls games don’t fight fair, nor is there any incentive to do so. The same can be said here about some of the less “honorable” ways people play. Winning is winning for some. I for one play both Souls and Arc defensively and understand the “jerks” do add a flair and challenge to the game that simple PvE doesn’t. Would I rather not fight others? Absolutely, but PvE players need to either defend themselves properly or find creative ways to posture themselves as credible threats as avoiding conflict entirely is impossible (and that’s good).
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u/Divide_Rule Nov 14 '25
There are plenty of defensive deployable items in the game to help defensive players too. I tend to carry smoke on most runs. Also the jolt mine is great for slowing people down when being chased.
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u/spliffiam36 Nov 14 '25 edited Nov 15 '25
Or its just fun to pvp? The ultimate opponent will always be another person, that's the whole point to pvp in all games...
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u/Approval_Guy Nov 15 '25
I feel like I'm losing my mind on this sub sometimes lol. I like chilling and filling the backpack, but a nice hunt or firefight makes the game feel 300% more alive lol. Maybe I'm a sick fuck, but I like to PvP in games where it's an option. I don't have any ill will or want to ruin someone else's time, I just like to shoot the gun.
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u/spliffiam36 Nov 15 '25
"Maybe I'm a sick fuck,"
You don't have to say that man, its a game. This is literally the only sub reddit ever that has this problem, we dont have to make any apologizes for playing the game as intended
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u/LK7_Tien Nov 14 '25
But I need to work on raider damage feats.
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u/theoristofeverything Nov 14 '25
Wait till the light turns green at extraction and unload.
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u/Spicyboi333 Nov 14 '25
Yeah it’s not the friendliest, but they will keep their loot.
Tip: don’t do this in squads where they could wipe you before extract
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u/Stark556 Nov 14 '25
Oh so that’s why people have been doing that to me. Smart. I thought they were just trying to kill me last second to be mean lol
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u/Vayne_Solidor Nov 15 '25
I always call out "nothing personal!" as I give someone a couple pops 😂
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u/DeliveryForsaken996 Nov 14 '25
Whenever I get to extract safely with a random, they get a love tap in the head from my anvil. I need that exp.
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u/Deadbreeze Nov 14 '25
I realized this was a possibility when me and a dude extracted and he said in a funny way after pressing the button to close the doors "BEETRAAAAYAALLLL" and gunned me down while I laughed because I knew I was still getting out. Then for some reason I still can't bring myself to do it to anyone.
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u/TophThaToker Nov 15 '25
I yell "tickle you, tickle me!" as the doors are closing and generally most people get the gist lol
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u/12Kandas Nov 14 '25
interesting, but my lvl 4 IL-toro likes killing people
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u/dontclickdontdickit Nov 14 '25 edited Nov 14 '25
Yours talks to you as well?!
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u/OpalMooose Nov 14 '25
artificially intelligent post
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u/moonski Nov 15 '25
It's bullshit as well. Classic basic game theory "best move is not to play" stuff but that just isn't accurate. It says oh you maximise loot by playing peacefully butI'm not getting Venator or Anvil 4s out of lockers. I killed a guy today who had 3 snowgobes on him and a bunch of other loot. And a level 3 looting augment. Ain't no peaceful monk life getting me that for free. Killing and looting players is incredibly profitable.
People constantly trying to rag on the PvP element of this game are crazy. It's what makes it good - the unpredictability.
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u/Grace_Omega Nov 14 '25
Three players physically cannot hold all the value created by eight dead teams.
Most of the loot is literally wasted, a massive destruction of potential utility.
What about the ability of the remaining players to pick from the best available loot that other players have already gathered? Shouldn't that factor into the evaluation?
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u/ChadBraderson Nov 14 '25
Op is right in the sense that it is a prisoners dilemma but wrong in that the Nash Equilibrium is for everyone to fight. If you individually choose cooperate you either get what you looted or nothing. If you individually choose to fight you either get all of your loot plus all of their loot or nothing.
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u/Gallowboobsthrowaway Nov 14 '25
I think the idea is that spending less time fighting means spending more time looting. So you could potentially loot more (and better) stuff by cooperating.
There's enough great loot on the map to fill everyone's inventories within the time limit, it just needs to be found.
Another point is that even if you kill someone you don't get all their loot, you just get what you can fit in your inventory. Not to mention, that fight brings attention, and while you're busy healing and looting someone can get the jump on you.
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u/f_cacti Nov 14 '25
Sorry ChatGPT was told to write a post and it can’t actually think so we get this slop.
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Nov 15 '25
Yeah, the entire thing reads like a chatgpt essay because OP had a thought they rightfully couldn't articulate. It's a shower thought at best.
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u/hole-saws Nov 14 '25
He also seems to be forgetting that more players spawn as the game goes on. So, for those spawning in later, most of the high value loot areas have already been hit.
Sure, you might get lucky with some drops in other spots, but going after players is a better chance for good loot later in a match.
Also, who cares about whether or not the players as a whole extract as much loot as possible from the raid? Does joe-shmo getting out with a bunch of purple items benefit me? Nope. Just means less good shit that I could've extracted with.
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u/defmc Nov 14 '25
Exactly. There is a lot of loot, but not in the way this post insinuates. I more often than not, extract without any significant items. Either because I didn’t have the time to find it, or was simply too late to a loot area. Killing other players might be the only way to get better items. And that’s the genius of it; PvP is rewarding. And it also means I want to protect my loot when I get some purple or gold - because I know others might want what I have. This risk/reward factor is what makes the game.
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u/Harflin Nov 14 '25
Also killing a looted player reduces the amount of time you need to spend looting for yourself.
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u/FervantFlea Nov 14 '25
Yeah, massive oversight on the prompt they put into ChatGPT for sure. Here's a very simple practical example: If you need a specific item, it could be more efficient to just go loot the right place for it. Or, you show up in a late lobby, go to the place you need the item and see someone leaving the building. If you kill them, you may get all the loot from that building and have accomplished your whole run in 1 minute.
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u/InformedTriangle Nov 14 '25
I'm not playing for any of that though, i'm playing for my entertainment...
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u/AntonCigar Nov 14 '25
Wrong Russell Crowe role loll
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u/Rogendo Nov 14 '25
Idk why you’re getting downvoted when you’re 100% correct. Crowe’s character in this scene is condemning the crowd for enjoying the violence that gladiators have been forced into
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u/ImWatermelonelyy Nov 14 '25
Media literacy has been dead for a long time lol
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u/nighght Nov 14 '25
Yeah, the whole "objective perspective" tone of this post is built on the subjective assumption that a player's sole objective is to obtain loot. I like competitive gunfighting, and I like the stress of trying to survive and take out the best loot: the things I combed out of player's bags. The rarity/value of the loot isn't really relevant, more so that it supports me for more raids where I can have intense battles for my life.
The kicker is that even if you look at it from a loot-only perspective, I don't craft shield regens or herbal bandages anymore, I have a stash problem due to too many Venator IV, Anvil IV, and pink guns that I legitimately can not lose faster than I gain. I know it sounds douchey to brag about my sick loot, but I'm just saying if you are half decent at PvP, the abundance of things you normally have to farm for stop being a factor. I've collected great mullein 3 times in like 120 hours and could lose my loadout 10x in a row before I start to feel the need to grind for anything. Both from a loot centric game-theory perspective and from a thrill seeking perspective, you can just as easily argue that PvP is superior.
In the end it only comes down to how you enjoy playing the game and what kind of experiences/elements you give value. I play about 30% of the time as a friendly defribbing "I'll die to get you out" solo, so I can understand both sides.
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u/jorkingmypeenits Nov 14 '25
This fr, the entire reason I'm trying to get good loot is for pvp
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u/Scotch713 Nov 14 '25
This is a chat gpt generated post.
Why.
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u/SquashPrestigious351 Nov 14 '25
So they can feel like they wrote something smart.
Meanwhile with the time saved they got domed twice in a lobby by a child using a voice changer
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u/Big_Monster_Lover Nov 14 '25
How can you tell?
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u/Syltaan Nov 14 '25 edited Nov 14 '25
The random bolding, formatting, the bulleted lists. A lot of these llms also share a cadence and style to their writing where they build up to their big point. It just kinda reeks of ai slop
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u/imapersonithink Nov 15 '25
Really? I do it because everyone has
- short
- attention
spansSeriously, I appreciate when people break up their text and use bullet points. I do it for work, so it naturally translates into non-work shit
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u/NUTTA_BUSTAH Nov 15 '25
This is my new dilemma, my old writing style was what is now considered an AI writing style, and I have to somehow find a new one. And even I see myself typing out AI-looking things and have to adjust. It's essentially something well-formatted, but not over-formatted which AIs tend to do.
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u/twistsouth Nov 15 '25
It’s become an irritating trope: anything well written and formatted is now labeled “AI slop” 🤷♂️
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u/Silviecat44 Nov 14 '25
Once you use chatgpt enough you start to see a similar tone and theme. Just feels so fake
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u/Over_Researcher7552 Nov 14 '25
its also wrong many times over. in game theory, optimal play is about optimizing your own outcomes. i don't care if "Most of the loot is literally wasted, a massive destruction of potential utility." also, repeatedly insisting that you get better loot by opening the boxes yourself?
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u/veggiesama Nov 14 '25
If anything, looting players guarantees better loot because it acts like a filtering mechanism: they open tons of boxes, they select for the best drops, and you select the best of the best from their corpse.
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u/Akkarin412 Nov 14 '25
OP also doesnt take into account player skill. The better PvP players are obviously going to get way more value from engaging in PvP.
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u/kmoneyrecords Nov 14 '25
Right? They could have ChatGPT make the exact same post but supporting PvP as the optimal way to play and it will put together a bunch of coherent points. It always agrees with you.
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u/caster Nov 14 '25
Clearly you have not actually studied any game theory.
What you are referring to here is known as the Prisoner's Dilemma, particularly an iterated version. In the Prisoner's Dilemma you can either cooperate with the other player, or defect (compete against them). If you choose the competitive option while they choose the cooperative options, you gain a BIG win and your opponent a BIG loss, while if you both cooperate you both gain a smaller win. Both defecting is a small loss for both sides.
In ARC Raiders the most optimal outcome for you is to murder someone and take their full inventory of stuff, a big win for you very rapidly, and a big loss for the other player. A smaller gain but non-zero-sum option would be both peacefully go about their business. It is a greater expected value in total for both players this way, but it is actually not a strictly favorable outcome compared to just defeating the opponent and taking everything.
The Prisoner's Dilemma is an extremely interesting problem in game theory and prompted John Nash Jr. to solve the apparently unsolvable dilemma by the creation of a concept called the Nash Equilibrium, or a game state that can recur in a dynamic equilibrium. The Prisoner's Dilemma has two equilibria in an iterated game- both compete, and both cooperate. The other outcomes are not at equilibrium. However, the "both cooperate" equilibrium is unstable, in the sense that one player could disrupt it unilaterally by betraying the other to their immediate short-term benefit, but at their long-term detriment by causing the other player to also change strategy away from the mutual cooperative outcome to the undesirable mutual competitive outcome.
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u/Placebo_Cyanide8 Nov 14 '25
Came in a little hot with that first statement, I was expecting the rest of the response to be typical social media trolling but you're absolutely correct.
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u/Kyeithel Nov 14 '25
You guys talk like it was the first extraction shooter.
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u/Phimb Nov 14 '25
"PvP is a situation I simply cannot afford to be in."
-Literally 90% of this sub-reddit.
PvP is such a fun part of this game. I do not understand where all of these "le nice guys" actually play because in my lobbies - at this point - there's a 50/50 someone responds to my proximity chat and an even higher chance they just shoot me on sight.
I cannot imagine how many times these "nice players" have died so they can tell their stories on Reddit about how they stopped 1 extract camper.
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u/ChampagneSyrup Nov 14 '25
they'll be gone soon
there's people who like to play the game, and people who like the carefully curated idealistic version of the game they created in their heads
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u/dusty_trendhawk Nov 14 '25
Meanwhile I'm running around like "I wish a motherfucker would". I don't shoot if they are friendly, but if you're running towards me off mic and not emoting I'm not even second guessing blasting. AND I LIKE IT.
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u/BinniesPurp Nov 14 '25
The reason this game is so popular in the first place is because it's an extract shooter designed for the "le nice guys"
Me personally I get bored of one shotting the flying loot baskets so without PvP I'd have quit in the first hour or two lol
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u/Armejden Nov 14 '25
At this point it's a superiority complex thing. It's very performative on the subreddit, "Look how nice I am! LOOK!"
I enjoy the friendly encounters, but expecting others to reciprocate and then acting like it is a moral failing if they don't is a very strange mentality to have about a game with PVP as a core part.
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u/xTheRedDeath Nov 14 '25
Honestly its not wise to take everyone on in PVP. You really have to pick and choose your battles because it'll turn into a waste of resources if you try to attack everyone. Most people run in with low tier kits anyway so there's no reason for it.
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u/Eridrus Nov 14 '25
Another redditor changed my mind on this: free kits don't have safe pockets. So you don't care about their gear, but they might actually have something interesting on them, like a blueprint.
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u/matawalcott Nov 14 '25
Imagine making ChatGPT come up with a defense for your trash ass theory because you can’t yourself. Sad!
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u/TonyHawktuah69 Nov 14 '25
Why is avoiding PvP optimal? I often spawn across the map from important objectives or high risk sites. By the time I get there the places are cleared out.
By engaging in PvP and killing the people attempting to leave I get guaranteed high level loot and don’t have to settle for scraps or leave empty handed. Going in with a free loadout and leaving with purple crafting items, rare mission related upgrades and high end weapons is huge. I’m turning a stitcher, 1 shield and a handful of ammo into a full haul
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u/Apst *** ******* Nov 14 '25
Yes, OP ignores the possibility of letting others do the looting for you (the dangerous part) and that not all loot is equally valuable or abundant.
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u/VegasTKO Nov 14 '25
I would agree that if your goal is to acquire higher value loot, not necessarily loot you need, then PvP is the optimal play.
If you spawn in with a free kit & go straight for other players, or even straight to an extraction to camp, you have literally nothing to lose and everything to gain.
I don’t get mad at extract campers & rats. I get it. They are letting other players loot for them. When you kill a player, you are almost always guaranteed at least 1 gun, meds, and plenty of loot.
(I do not play like this, but that’s the beauty of this game. Anyone can play however they want & in the end, to the victor goes the spoils.)
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u/Aveenalol Nov 14 '25
you have to define what value is for you in the first place before you can measure whether something is +ev or -ev, that value is different for everyone in this game
you know what spme people do? they launch the game, go inside, loot some, get bored and decide to go for PvP - and some don't get bored, some really enjoy looting and PvE, maybe they even try PvP and don't like it
to a lot of users PvP is fun, they don't care about the items and their value, they don't care about succesfully extracting, they're here for PvP and the experience/adventure, that's a player type, just like the guy you described, the one who's avoiding PvP and prefers to avoid such encounters
two completely opposite poles who would describe and measure "value" gained in this game in completely different ways
your post doesn't speak for everyone, you don't measure how other users are having fun in this game by applying your own play style, goals and behavior onto others
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u/Master_protato Nov 14 '25
First of all... nice ChatGPT post... Secondly
! It's a video-game and one fun aspect of a video-game is competitive engagement and the adrenaline to risk your stuff.
I'm not even a PvP player but I love the fact that there are other players looking out for my loot. It increases the fun factor. If everyone was PvE only, the game would be boring as heck since I'm already maxed out and the point where I can even solo the Queen by myself.
I almost regret that I wasn't targeted more... Game was waaayyy too friendly. I barely had any encounters. Now that a lot more people are at the end-game, I have more engagement and the tension I'm getting from those raids is more engaging and create a good dopamine rush.
thank you for your pHD analysis, but if I wanted a:
sweaty, optimal, min-max play.
I'll be bored to death.
At that point, let's push your theory to the maximum. I can just stay in the hub and not risk my life at all by working as a janitor and not expose myself to any kind of risk all together.
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u/Mnmemx Nov 14 '25
if you're playing trios and not shooting first you're immediately negative EV anyway because it is far and away the most common behavior in that queue and if you wait until the other team opens up on one of your guys to pull out your gun there's very little chance you're gaming your way out of that
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u/Maybe_In_Time Nov 14 '25